Trump

As regards insularity of Americans, my Dad , Londoner from way back when, thought going from Lewisham to Croydon was definitely a long way and out of his ‘area’. As for when we went to Woolwich with him - aargh. Yet he buzzed around in the war and trained in Canada and actually had Canadian citizenship. Bizarre.

It used to be the norm for youngsters to spend a couple of years in the UK working after they finished uni. My children did and loved living in London for a while. Not sure if that still happens or not. Definitely economic - they got really good jobs when they returned because they had overseas experience. Maybe this is the same with some migrants. I know a lot send money back home to help their fams,

nanna8

LizzieDrip

“We were economic migrants and part of the brain drain in the 1970s. Escaping from a 3 day week of electricity and rationing of bread in the UK under Ted Heath.”

nanna8 yet you don’t support your country (or mine) giving refuge to economic migrants trying to escape far worse atrocities than the electricity being turned off for a few hours!

Oh I most certainly do. We need them. Not the ones that we know nothing about and arrive through illegal means,though. We just love all your doctors and nurses especially. What a silly thing to say. My country is 99% migrants.

We just love all your doctors and nurses especially
We know!

But at least we have claimed one of your nurses over here! 😁

But in practice, he has a criminal in a US prison, whatever laws he changes, he cant just put in a plane and dump them in the country?

Wyllow3

He's said he would tackle serious criminals first, which I don't disagree with in theory,

But he will hit the same reality that we have - how do you deport a prisoner to his/her country of origin if they refuse to take them?

Pretty sure he will find ways.

And he doesnt have the same laws as we have.

And those he does, he will change?
As quick as he can?

Kalm

Vast swathes of Americans are not politically savvy. They don't think beyond their locality. There are Americans in Long Beach who think going to Nevada is a long haul holiday. The coastal corporate Americans do travel but they are a minority. Coupled with this the white right is still quite dominant. They go in for the horror story of "mad muslim bearded cave man is out to get us" May be that's why the doods were chased out by flip-flops of Afghanistan.
Perversely Trump might stop the war in Ukraine and Gaza. He will offer Zelensky a trade deal and tell Putin mate the IBM's are "pointing in your direction", your choice. He will tell bibi the little hitler to finish Gaza he won't care if another 10,000 bodies pile up and do what you have to do on Iran. Saudi will be well on side with the American and Israelis for project 2025. The liberals will bleat human rights and demos, but no one will care for the next 4 years. His pronoun is Trans-Actional

with reference to the insularity of most Americans Kalm,, did you see Question Time last week on BBC where a native New Yorker explained in detail the psychology (IHO) of the average american.. it was very interesting

Vast swathes of Americans are not politically savvy. They don't think beyond their locality. There are Americans in Long Beach who think going to Nevada is a long haul holiday. The coastal corporate Americans do travel but they are a minority. Coupled with this the white right is still quite dominant. They go in for the horror story of "mad muslim bearded cave man is out to get us" May be that's why the doods were chased out by flip-flops of Afghanistan.
Perversely Trump might stop the war in Ukraine and Gaza. He will offer Zelensky a trade deal and tell Putin mate the IBM's are "pointing in your direction", your choice. He will tell bibi the little hitler to finish Gaza he won't care if another 10,000 bodies pile up and do what you have to do on Iran. Saudi will be well on side with the American and Israelis for project 2025. The liberals will bleat human rights and demos, but no one will care for the next 4 years. His pronoun is Trans-Actional

I know a couple of people who employ seasonal workers and neither use gangmasters, they are registered and able to sponsor seasonal workers themselves and have done so for years. They certainly don't chaperone them when they go to the supermarket, neither do they live separately from the community, some come back yearly, do skilled work, speak good English and enjoy a pint with the locals at the pub (and look forward to going home at the end of the season!)

I just knew you would bite.

Seasonal workers are under the control of the gangmaster that brings them into the UK he is responsible for making sure they leave at the end of the season, he supervises them 24/7 they live in separate communities, when they do go shopping or to the doctor they are chaperoned.

Migrants that arrive in boats are a mixture of Assylum seekers Economic Migrants and Criminals all being transported by criminals. Any one can say they want assylum, if they come from an unsafe country they will be allowed to stay.

Wherever their origin they will claim to be from an unsafe state and it’s up to the border force to prove they are not. I’m not opposed to migration but I do want it properly controlled.
That has been the policy of successive governments and I support it.

David49

MaizieD

I'd be worried about them being exploited. Our EU seasonal workers put up with poor conditions because they knew they'd be going home at the end of the season. Asylum seekers wouldn't have that thought to sustain them.

All those seasonal workers would stay in the UK if they could a few do “disappear” but they are fingerprinted and it’s fairly easy to deport them when they are caught.

Once Assylum seekers or Economic migrants are accepted their living conditions are vastly improved over their home countries and they have work, for most that’s why they left home!.

What on earth are you talking about?

LizzieDrip

“We were economic migrants and part of the brain drain in the 1970s. Escaping from a 3 day week of electricity and rationing of bread in the UK under Ted Heath.”

nanna8 yet you don’t support your country (or mine) giving refuge to economic migrants trying to escape far worse atrocities than the electricity being turned off for a few hours!

Oh I most certainly do. We need them. Not the ones that we know nothing about and arrive through illegal means,though. We just love all your doctors and nurses especially. What a silly thing to say. My country is 99% migrants.

MaizieD

I'd be worried about them being exploited. Our EU seasonal workers put up with poor conditions because they knew they'd be going home at the end of the season. Asylum seekers wouldn't have that thought to sustain them.

All those seasonal workers would stay in the UK if they could a few do “disappear” but they are fingerprinted and it’s fairly easy to deport them when they are caught.

Once Assylum seekers or Economic migrants are accepted their living conditions are vastly improved over their home countries and they have work, for most that’s why they left home!.

“We were economic migrants and part of the brain drain in the 1970s. Escaping from a 3 day week of electricity and rationing of bread in the UK under Ted Heath.”

nanna8 yet you don’t support your country (or mine) giving refuge to economic migrants trying to escape far worse atrocities than the electricity being turned off for a few hours!

I'd be worried about them being exploited. Our EU seasonal workers put up with poor conditions because they knew they'd be going home at the end of the season. Asylum seekers wouldn't have that thought to sustain them.

Yes. its also arguable, tho I don't know how it can be worked in practice, that some asylum seekers in the UK, like in the USA, can work in certain areas whilst awaiting results.

Wyllow3

I've been doing some reading up on Trumps promises to deport millions of migrants rapidly.

He'll run into problems - countries refusing to take people back, people halfway through asylum claims, many migrants doing jobs in agriculture, construction, and caring, at wages no one will tolerate, but the businesses rely on the low pay to remain competitive: border stopping will work to a point, but there will be an increase in people smuggling just like we have with boat people.

In the states, its complicated by the semi' legal status of many (ie they have permission to stay as a result of certain laws, but not citizenship) - these current laws can be changed, but people will then be torn away from jobs and families and so on.

A similar problem we made for ourselves with Brexit when realising the crop pickers etc were no longer here.

I think ,to be fair, a lot of females voted for him, too. We were economic migrants and part of the brain drain in the 1970s. Escaping from a 3 day week of electricity and rationing of bread in the UK under Ted Heath. I would rather live under the likes of Trump than Starmer any day of the week. Last time he was in office was not the disaster some make it out to be. Some aholes are good leaders and vice versa.

As far as Trump's promises or given word goes, he lies so much about everything, why would this be different. A man who is above the law, cannot be arrested, ordered an assault on the US capital where people died, uses wealth to buy himself out of criminal convictions, such as sexual assault and rape has just been elected by 92% of the male population in the US to one of the most powerful positions on the planet. How is that for morals and values?

Fleurpepper

Macadia

The people who came to the US legally were escaping sometimes violent and.dangerous home life. The gang members they are running from can't get into the US legally so they have to get in illegally to escape their home life. Also, people from India, China and Iran will cross illegally using the Mexican US border if they get denied the other way. Deportation costs about $2,000/per person.

I have so many relatives who emigrated to the USA from the 19C onwards- they were escaping poverty, and were all economic migrants. Young men first. Single train ticket to the nearest Port and single ticket to NY and sort yourself out. Several of my relatives emigrated to Canada and re-entered USA illegally- did very well- finally got permission to stay. All contributed so much through their lifetime. Of course now 4th and 5th, 6th generation - and know very little about their foreign, immigrant origins

Yes, *Fleurpepper", my relatives were part of the engineering brain drain too that affected GB. They entered legally when they were allowed but stayed in Canada until given permission. From my observation, I have noticed that a lot of people from South America enter the US out of desperation.

This is no way to live: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB7dI0Tk3dw

Covert

It will be about optics I expect. The media will be flooded with pictures of coachloads or planeloads of young men being shipped out of the USA; it will send the right Trumpian message.
What could be dangerous is the convert message that will let some people do their own thing, so expect attacks on immigrants by vigilante groups of Trump followers.

Macadia

The people who came to the US legally were escaping sometimes violent and.dangerous home life. The gang members they are running from can't get into the US legally so they have to get in illegally to escape their home life. Also, people from India, China and Iran will cross illegally using the Mexican US border if they get denied the other way. Deportation costs about $2,000/per person.

I have so many relatives who emigrated to the USA from the 19C onwards- they were escaping poverty, and were all economic migrants. Young men first. Single train ticket to the nearest Port and single ticket to NY and sort yourself out. Several of my relatives emigrated to Canada and re-entered USA illegally- did very well- finally got permission to stay. All contributed so much through their lifetime. Of course now 4th and 5th, 6th generation - and know very little about their foreign, immigrant origins

Most Mexicans move to the US to earn good wages and then move back to Mexico to retire.

The people who came to the US legally were escaping sometimes violent and.dangerous home life. The gang members they are running from can't get into the US legally so they have to get in illegally to escape their home life. Also, people from India, China and Iran will cross illegally using the Mexican US border if they get denied the other way. Deportation costs about $2,000/per person.

(Yet it was one thing Harris did differently, which was to allow a % of incomers to take jobs, so they were gainfully employed not languish in hotels, , but those laws can be cancelled)