Shouldn’t we worry about this?

@Greyduster the US is indeed the biggest contributor to NATO the reason for that is because the US historically wanted a military buffer against the Soviet Union/Russia, but if Trump is persuaded by Putin the US could exit NATO and Trump will indeed cite the fact that some European countries weren’t paying enough.
In my experience the US doesn’t pay out unless it is in their best interests - understandable - so if Trump thinks us in America’s best interests to pull out he will do it. But this leaves Europe and especially Ukraine completely exposed and vulnerable.
Being hog tied to the US could be about to blow up in all our faces.

Geographically, strategically, we belong with NATO and in Europe. However difficult that path is. "Hitching ourselves" to the USA makes no sense. Without “hitching ourselves to the USA, there will be no NATO. They are the biggest monetary contributor and only thirty five per cent of the European member nations are meeting their funding targets. We are one of those thirty five percent. Trump is not particularly keen to continue using US tax dollars to prop NATO up. He could threaten to pull out unless we all start putting our hands deeper into our pockets. The alternative is the much vaunted European Defence Force, but Europe is highly unlikely to be able to fund that either.

26/27 million as an approximate figure.

@MaizieD
Yes indeed, Russia was an ally and helped us win the war, and they lost millions as compared to all other allied losses put together.
Lest we forget eh?
Looks like we already have.

Oreo

We wanted the US to get involved in the last war but until Pearl Harbour they were reluctant you’re right, but they could just have pursued a war with Japan but fortunately for us they threw in their soldiers and armaments into the war with Germany.We couldn’t have done it without them and our Colonial allies.

We couldn’t have done it without them and our Colonial allies.

Or Russia.

Everyone conveniently forgets Russia.

Apart from the military historians...

Oreo

We wanted the US to get involved in the last war but until Pearl Harbour they were reluctant you’re right, but they could just have pursued a war with Japan but fortunately for us they threw in their soldiers and armaments into the war with Germany.We couldn’t have done it without them and our Colonial allies.

Yep.

Yes, it is worrying the acceptance I am already witnessing in the media- still courting Farage especially, and marginalising those with opposite views.

This isn't freedom, it is already kow-towing and it will only continue until only those with more than half a brain will still see the truth- the rest will be brain-washed into blaming the 'woke' whoever they are.

Of course, Trumpmusk isn't Presidcent quite yet, but machines will be turning, deals made, investments planned. It is enough to make you want to get off this planet really...

I agree that the US was the reason we won the war Oreo. And we will always be grateful for that. But what I am talking about is something quite different, the far reaching foreign policies of the US, not specifically here but more importantly in parts of the world the US did not help win a war but caused a war in, or influenced thanks to funding and arms. And the very fact that many countries now worry about what the US are capable of underlines this. Surely the world should not be holding its breath to see what Trump might do next. He has promised a new world order but what does that mean and why should we blindly accept this?

They ‘threw their soldiers and armaments’ into the war because Germany and Italy declared war on the US.

Farzanah

I am beyond depressed about Trump being elected and am very pessimistic about the future.
Climate change is the biggest challenge facing the world and apparently Trump is a climate denier.

There has been disastrous evidence recently in Europe of the devastation that climate change will mean for the world. I can’t understand the complacency. It’s those that come after us, our grandchildren, and their grandchildren who will suffer because of our inaction.

Agreed.
Seems he approves of fracking, the pipeline, and dislikes wind turbines. However, certainly Musk's electric vehicles may come into play.

Yes we would probably have lost without US intervention, BUT would the same happen again? I doubt it, and the nuclear option is quite worrying in the wrong hands.

We wanted the US to get involved in the last war but until Pearl Harbour they were reluctant you’re right, but they could just have pursued a war with Japan but fortunately for us they threw in their soldiers and armaments into the war with Germany.We couldn’t have done it without them and our Colonial allies.

I am beyond depressed about Trump being elected and am very pessimistic about the future.
Climate change is the biggest challenge facing the world and apparently Trump is a climate denier.

There has been disastrous evidence recently in Europe of the devastation that climate change will mean for the world. I can’t understand the complacency. It’s those that come after us, our grandchildren, and their grandchildren who will suffer because of our inaction.

Oreo

Wyllow3

Geographically, strategically, we belong with NATO and in Europe. However difficult that path is. "Hitching ourselves" to the USA makes no sense, and hitching ourselves to a crazy POTUS makes no sense at all. To imagine he "Cares" in some way is an illusion: (being buddies with Farage will make no political difference here) the USA has completely different migration issues to ours: ours being in Europe.

I don't want to import US policies on guns, on political control of the civil service and judiciary, on womens' rights, on medical care (or total lack of for many).

Arms length!

It mattered that we hitched ourselves to the US in the 1940’s otherwise we’d all be speaking German now.

Hmm. I was under the impression that the US hitched itself to us, both in WW1 and WW2. It was quite isolationist. It took the attack on Pearl Harbour to drag them into WW2.

If military historians are to be believed it was Russia's intervention that was decisive in WW2.

It was post WW2 that the US set itself up as the defender of the 'free world' against the evil of communism and it interfered continually in the affairs of countries which conformed to their definition of 'communism. Notably in south America.

madalene

The UK will never import US policies on guns. The Civil Service are supposed to be impartial not sure they always are, our judiciary are impartial, women’s rights are more protected here than in the USA, nor is it likely we will be importing US style healthcare any time soon.

You wouldn’t think it needed saying, but obvs it does 😁

Wyllow3

Geographically, strategically, we belong with NATO and in Europe. However difficult that path is. "Hitching ourselves" to the USA makes no sense, and hitching ourselves to a crazy POTUS makes no sense at all. To imagine he "Cares" in some way is an illusion: (being buddies with Farage will make no political difference here) the USA has completely different migration issues to ours: ours being in Europe.

I don't want to import US policies on guns, on political control of the civil service and judiciary, on womens' rights, on medical care (or total lack of for many).

Arms length!

It mattered that we hitched ourselves to the US in the 1940’s otherwise we’d all be speaking German now.

Grantanow

We need to get much closer to the EU for political, defensive and market reasons, spend more on defence (more than the paltry 2.5% aimed at) and form a better relationship with China.

No don't need to get closer to the EU, they are as protectionist as many say Trump will be. As for forming a closer relationship with China, we are too involved with them as we are. Schools, manufacturing, buying up build8ngs and keeping them empty. Their tentacles are everywhere in this country,if we are not careful they will choke us.

From The Economist: "In some ways the Trump era is very modern. It was made possible by technological changes and media fragmentation, at a time when distinguishing law from politics and politics from showbiz is hard. But it is also a return to an old idea of America. Before the fight against fascism convinced FDR that it was in his country’s interest to help bring order and prosperity to the world, the country was hostile towards immigration, scornful of trade and sceptical of foreign entanglements."

Seems a logical summary, imo.

I just wonder how those who voted Brexit - and am not having a go has happened and that’s that - can square their wish to be rid of EU influence in UK affairs with allowing the US to influence our affairs?
Farage’s platform during the referendum was one of keeping our British sovereignty, but we haven’t kept it if when the US says jump our government asks ‘how high?’

I don’t think the Americans will suffer under Trump. The rest of us will, though. Especially those who have cut themselves off from the rest of the world.

madalene

The UK will never import US policies on guns. The Civil Service are supposed to be impartial not sure they always are, our judiciary are impartial, women’s rights are more protected here than in the USA, nor is it likely we will be importing US style healthcare any time soon.

Btw, in my opinion, the last thing we need is an Elon Musk of our own, he’s an extraordinarily clever and rich man, however he’s also a very very dangerous man funding another dangerous and deluded man!

The thing us, we shouldn’t be agonising about Trump. He is the US president, and above and beyond feeling sympathy for Americans who will suffer under his presidency, this shouldn’t be our business. But it is. And it is the business of countless countries globally. That is what we should be agonising about. The apparent colonisation of so much of the world, or whatever you care to call it, by a superpower that seems to now have impunity to bring about a new world order whether we like it or not.
And I don’t like it.

Wyllow3

Trump and co are actual climate deniers, despite its evidence in the USA, I dont want us to hitch myself to that wagon at all. It feels like we are going backwards: I'm not great fan of Boris Johnson, yet he achieved a lot in his climate conference:

To quote Trump, burn, baby, burn, and drill, baby, drill, and forget about our grandchildrens' future world, and the uncertainties facing farmers the world over with changing climate, not to mention areas that will disappear under water:
its a big no thanks.

And a big no thank you Trump for me too!

It’s so shortsighted to deny and ignore Climate Change, I want a world still in tact for my grandchildren and their children

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I for one just wish we didn’t have Starmer & Lammy right now. They’re facing entirely in the wrong direction with the EU. Which has stagnant growth anyway. I wish we were hitching our wagon to Trump’s. Ah well. It is what it is eh? I think the USA will prosper. The EU? Fraught with problems regarding immigration, net zero nonsense for targets that are way too soon - virtue signalling to one another to see who can burnish their green credentials and go hang us all, the consumers - and stagnation over AI red tape. We need an Elon Musk of our own. Never mind, we will muddle through with second best I suppose.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Let’s hope for the best, and anticipate the worst.

Absolutely Wyllow 👍