Amsterdam attacks

Annie, unless I am mistaken, it is Netanyahu who advised his citizens to stay away from such events, (for the next week, according to Sky News) not the countries with footie matches coming up asking they don't come.

"The Israeli government has told its citizens not to attend cultural or sports events abroad over the next week following violence in Amsterdam"

For example the footie match coming up in France, this Thursday, where

"In Paris, police said that 4,000 police officers will be deployed for Thursday's football match between France and Israel.

President Emmanuel Macron will attend the game, a gesture aimed at sending "a message of fraternity and solidarity after the intolerable acts of antisemitism that followed the match in Amsterdam", his office said."

@Freya

‘Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.’

That statement right there is a fine example if Islamophobia - to actually say ‘whatever that is’ as if it is not worthy of consideration.
Thanks for making my point perfectly!
Muslims may not all be one race but they certainly are treated with dehumanising racial hatred.
To only see one form of horrible racism and refuse to even recognise the other is at the core of what is being discussed on this thread.
My OH isn’t Muslim but sone family members are, and these who have attacked or subjected him or his family to Islamophobia with attacks both verbal or physical are not imagined, they are very real.
So if you are still wondering what Islamophobia is perhaps just ask someone first before showing your ignorance.

Freya5

Babs03

Many Muslims stay away from football matches due to far right groups targeting them. Muslims in general attract Islamophobia is increasing in most western countries, and often conflated with immigration issues.
Antisemitism is awful, but to assume Muslims get a cushy number with regard to anything really isn’t reading the room right now.

Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.
Why all the distraction for what this was, a deliberate hunting down of Jewish football supporters, even to running them over, planned and carried out out with vicious intent. Pulling down a flag does not justify this tribal behaviour. I'd have pulled it down too.

It wasn't just pulling down a flag, although I don't think it's justified to pull down any flags in a foreign country. A taxi driver was attacked and there was vile anti-Arab chanting - plus the refusal to acknowledge the minute's silence for the victims in Valencia.

The retaliation was disproportionate, but lets'be honest - the Israeli fans weren't innocent victims.

Anniebach

Read this thread earlier, wanted to vomit, still nauseous
Antisemitism and denial pouring from here

How can a newspaper article from 2014 relate to 2014?

How can relief be obtained by asking Israelis to stay away from
sporting events in this country and Europe? by banning Jews

I don't understand what you mean. The 2014 article relates to 2014. The fans of this particular football team have a known reputation as racist (anti-Arab, anti-black) and their reputation goes back way beyond the Gaza conflict. They are the 'Millwall' of Israel. They have been abusive to their own non-Jewish players.

Wyllow3

Nothing justifies it.

It wasn't the just the flag, there was no reaction the morning after.

But their disrespective behaviour during the minute for the Spanish, against a team that is known to be pro-Jewish, and the mass chants after the match Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs was openly provocative.

Like I said, it doesn't excuse the levels of violence later that evening, but to go as visitors to another country and express what they did and how they did it was beyond merely foolish.

There were chants before the match too. The timing on the published videos shows that.

Nothing justifies it.

It wasn't the just the flag, there was no reaction the morning after.

But their disrespective behaviour during the minute for the Spanish, against a team that is known to be pro-Jewish, and the mass chants after the match Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs was openly provocative.

Like I said, it doesn't excuse the levels of violence later that evening, but to go as visitors to another country and express what they did and how they did it was beyond merely foolish.

Read this thread earlier, wanted to vomit, still nauseous
Antisemitism and denial pouring from here

How can a newspaper article from 2014 relate to 2014?

How can relief be obtained by asking Israelis to stay away from
sporting events in this country and Europe? by banning Jews

Babs03

Many Muslims stay away from football matches due to far right groups targeting them. Muslims in general attract Islamophobia is increasing in most western countries, and often conflated with immigration issues.
Antisemitism is awful, but to assume Muslims get a cushy number with regard to anything really isn’t reading the room right now.

Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.
Why all the distraction for what this was, a deliberate hunting down of Jewish football supporters, even to running them over, planned and carried out out with vicious intent. Pulling down a flag does not justify this tribal behaviour. I'd have pulled it down too.

growstuff

Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are renowned for being racist against their own Arab, black and foreign players, long before the current war in Gaza.This is one example from 2014:

www.ibtimes.co.uk/israeli-football-fans-shout-f-arabs-palestinian-player-maccabi-tel-aviv-1459605

Disgusting victim blaming again.

I was surprised at breakdown of the 62 charges, to be honest, few reflect the violence that occurred.

I'm not sure it's fair to say the police were inept, because to prove attacks there has to be webcam or CCTV evidence.

UK riot arrests were done on the basis of clearly identifiable suspects "in action" in specific locations:

but in Amsterdam everything was happening "on the run", in different city locations often according to the news on scooters.

I'm sure the police are under strict instructions to prosecute when they can.

There is very little in the newspapers this morning about it, but I'm sure that possible future incidents are going to be watched a lot more closely.

There’s a lot of them about and always has been.

The only ones encouraging them online were antisemites.

Thanks for info Wyllow. Am imagining some detained for setting off illegal fireworks would have been Israeli fans for footage shows them setting these off and making a ruckus when a minutes silence was held for Spanish people who died or lost everything in the terrible floods in Valencia.
Both sides need to be convicted and those who encouraged them online dealt with swiftly.

Wyllow3

silverlining48

Not forgetting Islamophobia too presumably

We can't ignore the Wednesday night incidents tearing down the flag and attack on the taxi driver, nor the very provocative

"Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs" early evening

from massed Maccabi fans before the attacks in the city later Thursday night.

I read up on Ajax's history after your post, Escaped - it's certainly significant - thank you - it makes for example the Maccabi fans refusal to observe the one minutes silence for Spain all the more confusing.

Except to perhaps observe that current hostilities overrode these historic connections?

That the younger generation Maccabi fans were not aware? And makes all the events more sad than ever.

I'd certainly like to know about the backgrounds of the Wednesday night attackers, if any were angry footie supporters or all arrived for ant semitic rioting, who they were. Were these anti semitic rioters "pro-palestinian" or far right (yes Denmark has had a recent rise in that this year) or thugs looking for a fight at all costs?

I can guess at the backgrounds of Wed night Dutch attackers and escaped is right that Ajax like Spurs ( was my Dad’s team as we lived local) is known for being a Jewish club.
The refusal to observe the minute silence for Spain was a mistake IMO but it was to do with Spain’s policy to the Israeli government.
It’s always difficult to get direct evidence if suspects are hooded and masked as many of the Dutch probably were.If it turns out they weren’t then that’s down to inept police procedure.
During the protests and riots here even an older woman who hurled insults outside a hotel was jailed.

Todays report of what happened to the 62 arrested doesn't reflect the levels of violence but it appears that lack of direct evidence against individuals is hard to establish

"Halsema and the heads of the Dutch police and prosecution said at a press conference on Friday that violence by “rioters and criminals” aimed at some of the 2,600 “Jewish Israeli visitors” had left five people in hospital and 20 to 30 with minor injuries. There were reports of fireworks set off, people being thrown into canals and some Maccabi supporters being asked for identity documents in order to be allowed back to their hotels."

But
"According to the prosecution service, there are four suspects still in custody, including two under-18s, “suspected of having used open violence during the riots last Thursday” and due before the magistrate this week."

"Of the 62 arrested, “around 40” are suspected of public disorder and were fined and released. Ten were suspected of insult, vandalism or possession of illegal fireworks and have been released but are still suspects. Of another 10, four have been fined for minor offences including insult, resisting police, not showing ID and two charges were dismissed owing to lack of evidence."

Perhaps the Dutch authorities could show that they have detained both Palestinian/Dutch thugs and Israeli thugs. And not just let the Israelis involved fly back on one of Netanyahus rescue flights.
This would be a good gesture right now.
But I suspect cannot be done due to only one group of thugs facing convictions.

Its not come “out of the blue”

‘Denmark records highest number of antisemitic incidents since WWII, part of a grim European trend” Feb 2024.

www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/denmark-records-highest-number-of-antisemitic-incidents-since-wwii-part-of-a-grim-european-trend

The Nordic Resistance Movement is active in Denmark.
“The Nordic Resistance Movement, or NMR, is a neo-Nazi organisation originally founded in Sweden that is openly anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant and anti-gay. Their goal is to create an ethnically pure pan-Nordic nation, according to the group’s website, and to deport most non-ethnic Northern European residents and dismantle the “global Zionist elite”.

www.euronews.com/2018/08/25/-most-radical-organisation-neo-nazi-group-seeks-to-gain-ground-in-nordic-countries

I hope and expect the authorities will come down hard on the rioters and investigations find out and prosecute those who spread the violence online.

Well said Wyllow.
The danger is that always taking the side of Israelis in these situations will inflame matters even more.
There should have been condemnation of both sides and not the singling out of Palestinians making antisemitic remarks when Israeli supporters were doing the same right back.
Is like giving one side preferential immunity/impunity whilst the other side has to suck it up.

Sorry typos there, but you get my drift.

silverlining48

Not forgetting Islamophobia too presumably

We can't ignore the Wednesday night incidents tearing down the flag and attack on the taxi driver, nor the very provocative

"Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs" early evening

from massed Maccabi fans before the attacks in the city later Thursday night.

I read up on Ajax's history after your post, Escaped - it's certainly significant - thank you - it makes for example the Maccabi fans refusal to observe the one minutes silence for Spain all the more confusing.

Except to perhaps observe that current hostilities overrode these historic connections?

That the younger generation Maccabi fans were not aware? And makes all the events more sad than ever.

I'd certainly like to know about the backgrounds of the Wednesday night attackers, if any were angry footie supporters or all arrived for ant semitic rioting, who they were. Were these anti semitic rioters "pro-palestinian" or far right (yes Denmark has had a recent rise in that this year) or thugs looking for a fight at all costs?

Many Muslims stay away from football matches due to far right groups targeting them. Muslims in general attract Islamophobia is increasing in most western countries, and often conflated with immigration issues.
Antisemitism is awful, but to assume Muslims get a cushy number with regard to anything really isn’t reading the room right now.

Wyllow3

It may have taken place within the context of footie conflict, but it was intensely political from both sides of this terrible conflict.

Yes I am a "try to see it from both sides" and both anti semitism and anti Arab/Islam events were carried out.

Levels of planning when it's called "Jew Hunt" are clearly anti semitic and I expect arrests will follow as did the riots in the UK for SM plans - I hope so. but who is carrying the costs in terms of innocents killed in Palestine and now Lebanon.

Nevertheless, as long as the current Israeli regime continues some of its policies, these protests and worse won't stop.

Disband Hamas. Problem solved.

Oreo 👏👏👏

silverlining48

Not forgetting Islamophobia too presumably

When the day comes that Muslim sports fans are advised to stay away from countries in Europe as Jewish groups are planning to beat the c**p out of them if they set foot there, then yes.

Not forgetting Islamophobia too presumably