Amsterdam attacks

Incidentally I did watch it, a 13 year old kid not a reporter!
Even he says some Israeli fans are arming themselves with metal poles from a construction site for their own protection.
He also says a taxi drove into the fans.The rest of the Israeli fans are doing nothing more than walking into the distance at that point.
I would suggest reading what police dealt with, the injuries and the footage of some of the attacks on fans doing nothing by the Dutch.

You’re flying in the face of what Dutch police and the Mayor of Amsterdam say MazieD
It was organised by Dutch Pro Palestinian supporters, there’s evidence for it.Was the young Dutch reporter a real reporter or a Pro Palestinian? Taxis and young men on scooters had pre planned an attack and it was the Dutch not the Israelis.
I did expect some antisemitism to show up on here but not by somebody saying an out and out lie such as it was pre planned as an attack by the Israelis.
The random group attacks by the Dutch took place all over the city centre not just in one place.
Please read the apologies by the Mayor and the King.

Oreo

It was a pre planned attack.

By the Israeli 'fans' it seems.

There's a video here made by a young Dutch reporter. He shows events after the match. One thing for certain, there is no-one attacking the Israeli fans. but they look well organised.

Judge for yourselves. It's about 20 minutes long. English sub titles.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySHIOYyJ95A

I think the Dutch police did well to contain them, BTW.

Jane71

^Oreo Sat 09-Nov-24 09:45:22
Whitewavemark2 you seem to be tying yourself up in knots in an effort to get round the truth of the matter of what happened in Amsterdam.
It was hatred of Jews pure and simple^

But you don't know that do you? How do you know it wasn't hatred of Israel?

Are they so thick, then, that they cannot separate Jewish football fans from their country's government?

Of course it was anti-semitism.

It was a pre planned attack.

Also on scooters of course.

madalene

^It was hatred of Jews pure and simple^

Of course it was.
It’s reported that many of the attackers arrived on motor scooters, suddenly appearing out of alleyways. Tactics learnt from Hamas, who also arrived on motor scooters and trucks.

The Mayor says that taxi drivers were involved and drove and cornered Israeli fans.

x.com/leylahamed/status/1855076562561028493

x.com/Arnold_August/status/1855065640186318999

It was hatred of Jews pure and simple

Of course it was.
It’s reported that many of the attackers arrived on motor scooters, suddenly appearing out of alleyways. Tactics learnt from Hamas, who also arrived on motor scooters and trucks.

Oreo

Don’t be naive anyone, this was not muddling football culture with antisemitism. Did Dutch Palestinian supporters go after other visiting football fans in this way? No they didn’t.
Excuses won’t wash.

This.

Anniebach

The mayor would have been fully informed, he said antisemitism

Well worth repeating especially today the 9th November remembering Kristallnacht.

Jane71

^Oreo Sat 09-Nov-24 09:45:22
Whitewavemark2 you seem to be tying yourself up in knots in an effort to get round the truth of the matter of what happened in Amsterdam.
It was hatred of Jews pure and simple^

But you don't know that do you? How do you know it wasn't hatred of Israel?

I'm on a train to London, so haven't time to check back, but I'm sure it was mentioned that Palestinian groups were organising these Amsterdam attacks well ahead of the match. The language they used was not, "let's have a punch up with the opposing side's football fans", but it was "let's attack The Jews". There is a big difference.

It was hatred of Jews who live in Israel but could very easily spill over, if it hasn’t already, end up in any Dutch Jews being targeted.Jews in London have had to be careful all last year.

The mayor would have been fully informed, he said antisemitism

There is no need to go into the history with which we are all very familiar.
It's inevitable in the context to mention history, but a lot of the posts on this thread are crying out for a future without all this hostility, or at least a better recognition and understanding. Posters are saying what they object to and find intolerable, and then expressing their longing for future peace all round.
Lecturing doesn't help if it ignores how the Amsterdam attacks started, and it wasn't just the burning of a Palestinian flag by football fans.

^Oreo Sat 09-Nov-24 09:45:22
Whitewavemark2 you seem to be tying yourself up in knots in an effort to get round the truth of the matter of what happened in Amsterdam.
It was hatred of Jews pure and simple^

But you don't know that do you? How do you know it wasn't hatred of Israel?

The Dutch Palestinian supporters didn’t give a flying fig if the Israelis they were stabbing and kicking were Zionists or not, they were Jews and that was enough.

Whitewavemark2 you seem to be tying yourself up in knots in an effort to get round the truth of the matter of what happened in Amsterdam.
It was hatred of Jews pure and simple.

Whitewavemark2

Zionism is a political arm of a particular sect of the Jewish faith that has been active for over a century. It argues for a Jewish state claiming it of a right that goes back millennia.

There is no need to go into the history with which we are all very familiar.

Zionism does have an extreme wing which is evident in the settlers behaviour we are witnessing.

Criticising Zionism is NOT anti-Semitic.

Do not muddle the two. Many Jews, whilst accepting the Israeli state, reject entirely the Zionist expansionism that is evident. It is not antisemitism to criticise this political aim.

You can fully support the right for a Jewish state.

You can fully support the right to a Palestinian state.

You can totally reject Zionist expansionism.

None of this is anti-faith of any sort.

This 👏👏👏👏👏

Babs03

Antisemitism is terrible so is Islamophobia, it has been said that antisemites hide in plain sight, well Islamophobes don’t even go to effort of hiding. As can be seen on threads about migrant crossings.

Nonsense, migrants aren’t always followers of Islam, they’re often from Christian countries and many other religions.A great number from Vietnam for instance.
What most people object to on the migrant threads are huge numbers of people arriving through illegal ways.

Mature debate should be able to distinguish between them.
I understand your use of the imperative mood, but who is not having mature debate on here Whitewavemark2?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Seems pogroms have returned to Europe. It’s terrifying, this escalation of violence isn’t it?

BBC reporting this as "clashes between rival fans...". 🤷‍♀️
We need a new phrase to call out antisemitism across our rotten craven illiberal Establishment. Here and in Europe.

I agree completely

Zionism is a political arm of a particular sect of the Jewish faith that has been active for over a century. It argues for a Jewish state claiming it of a right that goes back millennia.

There is no need to go into the history with which we are all very familiar.

Zionism does have an extreme wing which is evident in the settlers behaviour we are witnessing.

Criticising Zionism is NOT anti-Semitic.

Do not muddle the two. Many Jews, whilst accepting the Israeli state, reject entirely the Zionist expansionism that is evident. It is not antisemitism to criticise this political aim.

You can fully support the right for a Jewish state.

You can fully support the right to a Palestinian state.

You can totally reject Zionist expansionism.

None of this is anti-faith of any sort.

Don’t be naive anyone, this was not muddling football culture with antisemitism. Did Dutch Palestinian supporters go after other visiting football fans in this way? No they didn’t.
Excuses won’t wash.

GrannyGravy13

Just home after dinner with our Jewish friends, they just shrugged their shoulders and said same old same old where are we to go?

Your Jewish friends have a point there.

I think the words, Never again, are problematic because the world is a very different place now from how it was immediately after the Holocaust. Times have changed, the world evolves, but Jewish people continue to face overwhelming hostility. They always will. Antisemitism appears to be a timeless and universal problem.