Amsterdam attacks

Casdon

There is some pernicious mischief making targeting the BBC quite unfairly and more importantly, inaccurately, on this thread. Quoting what they have been told by Dutch officials does not constitute biased reporting. The same information is on Sky News, ITV News and other mainstream media.

This is todays summary by the BBC and you can see the sources who said what as regards use of word "both" but also the balance of reporting.

"We're now closing our live page of the violence against Maccabi Tel Aviv fans in the heart of the Dutch capital.

The violence has been felt across Western Europe, especially because for many it was a reminder of what happened all those decades ago in Germany not long before World War Two.

There were incidents in Amsterdam the night before "on both sides", as the police chief put it, with Maccabi fans seen tearing down a flag and later chanting anti-Arab slogans. But the mayor of Amsterdam said they were no excuse for what came later.

She and others were acutely aware of what tomorrow's date, 9 November, means in the European calendar - the night of the Nazi pogroms against Jews.

German leaders felt the Amsterdam riots keenly. Chancellor Olaf Scholz said they were "unbearable": Jews had to be able to feel safe in Europe, he said.

Dutch King Willem-Alexander said the same - that Jews had to feel safe at all times: "We put our arms around them and will not let them go." And France's Emmanuel Macron said the attacks were a reminder of the "most shameful hours in history".

Something it is not. Are you even serious?

The king of the Netherlands has said “we failed” the Jewish community as the country did “during World War Two” after Israeli football fans were ambushed, kicked and beaten on the streets of Amsterdam.

Israel sent two planes to rescue its citizens after the violence broke out in the aftermath of a Europa League match between Ajax Amsterdam and Israel’s Maccabi Tel Aviv on Thursday night.

Police said five people were taken to hospital and 62 arrests made after a pro-Palestinian mob began attacking Israeli football fans around midnight.

Speaking to Isaac Herzog, Israel’s president, King Willem-Alexander expressed “deep horror and shock”, saying: “We failed the Jewish community of the Netherlands during World War Two, and last night we failed again.”

Why would the King get involved if it were “just a fight between two rival football gangs” then?

Yes it is awful when you cant control what other people say.
I am concerned about this, you think it is less serious.

Casdon

There is some pernicious mischief making targeting the BBC quite unfairly and more importantly, inaccurately, on this thread. Quoting what they have been told by Dutch officials does not constitute biased reporting. The same information is on Sky News, ITV News and other mainstream media.

A vain attempt Casdon. Some have already decided to make this into something it is not. And sadly is this attitude that adds heat to the situation rather than dialling it down.

Anniebach
Anti Zionist is antisemitism

Is that correct?

Zionism is the belief that Jews constitute a nation and have a moral and historic right and need for self-determination in Palestine.

I'm sure we can disagree with that without being anti-Semitic can't we? Criticising the actions of Israel is not the same as criticising Jews.

There is some pernicious mischief making targeting the BBC quite unfairly and more importantly, inaccurately, on this thread. Quoting what they have been told by Dutch officials does not constitute biased reporting. The same information is on Sky News, ITV News and other mainstream media.

Why is the flag of Hamas terrorists allowed to be displayed in the West.

Sorry is no one died now a benchmark of what is acceptable. Dear God.

Now it has emerged that the attacks on the Jewish football fans were planned in advance and co-ordinated using WhatsApp and Telegram.

The Telegraph has seen messages from a group chat called Buurthuis, a Dutch word for a type of community centre, which were posted on Wednesday, the day before the match.

One message says: “Tomorrow after the game, at night, part 2 of the Jew Hunt.

“Tomorrow we’ll work on them.”

Was a free for all between both sides, and neither came out of it looking good I agree Babs. Fighting between opposing football supporters is nothing new and just because one group were Israeli doesn't mean this was antisemitic.

Am no DM fan, but for those of you who probably find it chimes with your opinions on immigration, here's what they say about what happened in Amsterdam.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-14053391/Israeli-football-hooligans-Palestine-flags-Ajax-Maccabi-Tel-Aviv.html

Of course the Mayor will describe it as antisemitic because a crowd of Palestinians were shouting antisemitic insults, just as the Israelis were shouting Islamophobic insults. The difference is you won't hear the Mayor say they were shouting Islamphobic insults but is there on the footage.
Was a free for all between both sides, and neither came out of it looking good.

A pogrom is an organised massacre. Many people die.
Not a punch up on the streets of Amsterdam. No one died.
That’s not saying it’s not concerning, because it is.

The mayor of Amsterdam has described it as antisemitic.

I don't think that talk of pogroms or Nazis is especially helpful or accurate. If the BBC and other news agencies are all wrong perhaps we should all stop watching the news in any shape or form and just trust those who weren't there/didn't see it to tell us exactly what is going on.

The BBC is reporting this as a "clash between football fans and supporters of Palestine" to emphasise the exact equivalence of the 2 sides. Like Kristallnacht was "a clash between Jewish shopkeepers and the Nazis".

Beggars belief.

Seems pogroms have returned to Europe. It’s terrifying, this escalation of violence isn’t it?

BBC reporting this as "clashes between rival fans...". 🤷‍♀️
We need a new phrase to call out antisemitism across our rotten craven illiberal Establishment. Here and in Europe.

Neither side comes out well in this, but no one died or is badly injured and it’s nothing compared to what is going on in Gaza, which is ceaseless in its intensity.
I have just seen people picking up pieces of bodies ….among the ruins of what were once their homes.

Cossy

In a City such as Amsterdam this is sad and shocking and completely unacceptable.

This has little to do with football and probably even less to do with the average Dutch person, but is a very sad sign of the far right surfacing in Europe.

👏 👏
I think this is much more than simple football hooliganism. It was probably planned, so I am surprised the Dutch police weren't on top of it more.
It's not possible to ignore the historic context here.

Our neighbours here (in Málaga) are from Amsterdam. They are shocked at the violent scenes depicted. As were we. Truly shocking.

In a City such as Amsterdam this is sad and shocking and completely unacceptable.

This has little to do with football and probably even less to do with the average Dutch person, but is a very sad sign of the far right surfacing in Europe.

Whitewave and MaisieD are correct. This was not exactly as it is being reported in some quarters.
Anniebach not everyone agrees that your statement is true and they are perfectly entitled to their own opinion.

Babs03

Apparently both sides were inflamed, but thankfully only light injuries were sustained.
These aren't my words but how it was reported by someone in Amsterdam on the BBC news right now.
My opinion is that blowing this out of proportion will only result in more flash points.

Yes

Apparently both sides were inflamed, but thankfully only light injuries were sustained.
These aren't my words but how it was reported by someone in Amsterdam on the BBC news right now.
My opinion is that blowing this out of proportion will only result in more flash points.

It is not quite as simple or straightforward as the OP suggests. - unfortunately.

Like everything else it seems these days it is two tribes of intolerance and hate.

When will we learn?