Amsterdam attacks

O/P speaks of antisemitism

In relationship to Amsterdam, it's not directly relevant.

(If there was a thread on footie players and all kinds of racism, there is lots of material)

I have no interest in football but am a rugby lover, have never
gone to a rugby match and wanted to know what a teams religious affiliations are or even wondered

Actually many players' religious affiliations are not publicly disclosed. Is it important?
Why are we discussing whether individual team players, most of whom we have never heard of, are Muslim, Druze or whatever?

Ooops! Just remembered I'd cancelled this thread! Ah well!

Rosie51

growstuff Most people do not have a partner with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the world's football teams who has imparted said knowledge to them. Hence many, probably most, people will likely be under the impression the teams we're referring to are 'Jewish teams'. Surely you see that?

Indeed! There are too many people who equate Israel with Jewishness. Hopefully, they're now better informed.

Anniebach

Nothing about antisemitism in that alleged Liverpool chant

But a lot about sentiments towards Muslims.

I can't speak for her but think the point that Growstuff was trying to make is that sadly we live in a world where racism can and is expressed by football supporters, which is part of the discussion on this thread.

Sounds like they really like Salah to me.😃

Nothing about antisemitism in that alleged Liverpool chant

Not sure what the purpose of you posting the Liverpool chant is??

growstuff Most people do not have a partner with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the world's football teams who has imparted said knowledge to them. Hence many, probably most, people will likely be under the impression the teams we're referring to are 'Jewish teams'. Surely you see that?

Rosie51

growstuff

Rosie51 There was more than vile chanting. The Maccabi Tel Aviv fans attacked the taxi driver and his car with a chain. They had tooled themselves up before there was any retaliation. The time stamps on some of the published videos and witnesses have shown pretty conclusively the sequence of events.

Sorry, my post obviously didn't make it clear that I was referencing the protest chants and Israel flag burning that happens in the UK. I don't think you'd accept that as an excuse for physical violence against Muslims, but maybe to be fair you would.

Until all the evidence is available it's impossible to ascertain the framework of the incidents. How many attacked the taxi driver and does that make all Maccabi fans guilty? Were the pro Palestinian participants sure they only targeted the guilty? Did they even care or was being Jewish guilt enough?

No Rosie51 I don't accept racist chanting or flag-burning and I don't condone any retaliatory violence. I resent the suggestion that I would (but sneering has become so commonplace).

My interest in this is not so much to 'blame' either side, but to observe the biased reporting and agenda of that reporting.

PS. Have you ever been to a football match to know how the hooliganism (usually fuelled by drugs and/or alcoholism) escalates?

PPS. I'm leaving this thread, but not before posting one of the chants from Liverpool FC:

Mo Salah, la, la, la, la,
La, la, la, la, la, la,

Mo Salah, la, la, la, la,
La, la, la, la, la, la,

If he's good enough for you,
He's good enough for me,
If he scores another few then I'll be Muslim too,
If he's good enough for you,
He's good enough for me,
Then sitting in a mosque is where I wanna be...
(Repeated...)

escaped

Rosie51

escaped I hope you don't think I'm making light of this discussion. I was just pointing out that the average person will not be au fait with the teams mentioned and will likely think of them as Jewish teams and their supporters too. I also have some Jewish family without being Jewish myself, I'm from the male line that married out.

👍 not at all Rosie51. I think we pretty much sing from the same sheet.
I agree that mentioning the names of random Arab players in an Israeli team is taking Google research a bit far. Are they Muslims, I've no idea. What I was saying is, why even bother to mention them when players' names aren't also given?

The ones playing in the national team are Israeli-born Muslims or Druze. The players in the individual teams can be bought in from anywhere in the world.

PS. I didn't have to do much Googling. My partner is a football fanatic with an encyclopaedic knowledge about many teams. he knew of the 'ultras' connected to Maccabi Tel Aviv because they're renowned, so I just had to Google the names of the players they've abused. They are the 'Millwall' of Israel.

Wyllow3

"For me, it isn't a competition, and I'm not looking to score points.
What is being discussed is here too important for that.
Just to be clear"

Thank you for that.

I'm not quite sure (I might be really wrong)

that the backgrounds of people laying in the actual teams makes a lot of difference between the points of discussion as regards both the behaviours of the Maccobi fans and the pro-Palestinian attackers?

Probably not!

* German players' names

Rosie51

escaped I hope you don't think I'm making light of this discussion. I was just pointing out that the average person will not be au fait with the teams mentioned and will likely think of them as Jewish teams and their supporters too. I also have some Jewish family without being Jewish myself, I'm from the male line that married out.

👍 not at all Rosie51. I think we pretty much sing from the same sheet.
I agree that mentioning the names of random Arab players in an Israeli team is taking Google research a bit far. Are they Muslims, I've no idea. What I was saying is, why even bother to mention them when players' names aren't also given?

playing not "laying"

"For me, it isn't a competition, and I'm not looking to score points.
What is being discussed is here too important for that.
Just to be clear"

Thank you for that.

I'm not quite sure (I might be really wrong)

that the backgrounds of people laying in the actual teams makes a lot of difference between the points of discussion as regards both the behaviours of the Maccobi fans and the pro-Palestinian attackers?

The thing is escaped is that within the Jewish religion, you are either Jewish or you're not. You can't be "part Jewish" or "half Jewish".

escaped I hope you don't think I'm making light of this discussion. I was just pointing out that the average person will not be au fait with the teams mentioned and will likely think of them as Jewish teams and their supporters too. I also have some Jewish family without being Jewish myself, I'm from the male line that married out.

Rosie51

growstuff

I don't agree with supporting Jews unconditionally if they behave abominably.

I don't think many people do.

Your extensive and impressive knowledge about Maccabi Tel Aviv and the Israeli national team probably goes way beyond what the average person knows. Were you aware of all this months or years ago or has google educated you since this trouble? Regardless of the accuracy both teams will likely be perceived as being Jewish teams and their supporters likewise. For some that assumption is sufficient to justify their actions.

Just to say, and I am not now making light of this discussion at all, I AM a bit educated in this area. Long before Google existed, I worked for Tottenham Hotspur at The Chanticleer in N17. My father was part Jewish, I am not.
Some of us speak from experience, some from listening to other people who may be Jewish friends or relatives, and some from extensive googled research. For me, it isn't a competition, and I'm not looking to score points.
What is being discussed is here too important for that.
Just to be clear.

Oreo

Same here love0c and the pro Palestinians did behave abominably in Amsterdam.
growstuff I understand you’re invested in this subject as you’ve said on GN that your DD has an Arab heritage background partner, but that doesn’t negate the way that Jews have always been treated throughout history or any physical attacks on them here, Amsterdam or in other countries.

Absolutely Oreo.

Anniebach

Some of the squad were not Jews ? But some were, should we
expect Jews to wear The Star Of David ?

😲

growstuff

By the way, Maccabi Tel Aviv isn't a Jewish team. It's an Israeli team, which has had (and still has) non-Jewish players. At least one of its players, Issouf Sissokho, is a Malian Christian.

OK Maccabi Tel Aviv is identified as a Jewish Club then, as is Spurs. I think maybe some others here at home are too.
Of course you don't have to be Jewish to play for Maccabi Tel Aviv or any others. (I know that because a young relative plays for an international Italian team, but he isn't Italian or Catholic, though he does eat pizza!)
I'm glad Israeli teams include players of all nationalities, and races, or whatever. Not just Arab players too, as the list of German players in Israeli clubs is quite extensive too. It shows they bear no grudges in that sense.

growstuff

I don't agree with supporting Jews unconditionally if they behave abominably.

I don't think many people do.

Your extensive and impressive knowledge about Maccabi Tel Aviv and the Israeli national team probably goes way beyond what the average person knows. Were you aware of all this months or years ago or has google educated you since this trouble? Regardless of the accuracy both teams will likely be perceived as being Jewish teams and their supporters likewise. For some that assumption is sufficient to justify their actions.