Amsterdam attacks

Allira

Babs03

@Oreo that is a highly offensive thing you say about innocent Muslims worldwide.
If you think is because of extremism you should consider that millions of Muslims are the victims of Islamic extremism and that before western governments destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iraq, that extremism was not as big a problem fir the poor Muslims living there who had to flee and seek refuge in western countries who like killing Muslims but don’t like having them in their own countries as refugees.
Perhaps most Muslims worldwide fear the extremism of western governments that March into their homelands and destroy them.
And your comment more or less makes it clear that Islamophobia is hunky dory because Muslims should pay for the actions of a bunch of extremists.
I get that you must dislike Muslims it is patently clear, but if is ok to hate a whole people because of the sins of a few, that is also applicable in non Muslim situations around the world.
Was through with this thread before but am certainly through now.

Oreo that is a highly offensive thing you say about innocent Muslims worldwide.

That is not what Oreo said at all.

Are you denying that terrorism exists?

There isn't even the slightest hint anywhere in Babs03's posts of a denial that terrorism exists. The question is a 'strawman'.

Oreo

It seems so Allira
Either that or posters don’t read comments properly.

Oh, I think often posters put their own spin on others' posts for whatever reason.

It seems so Allira
Either that or posters don’t read comments properly.

Babs03

@Oreo that is a highly offensive thing you say about innocent Muslims worldwide.
If you think is because of extremism you should consider that millions of Muslims are the victims of Islamic extremism and that before western governments destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iraq, that extremism was not as big a problem fir the poor Muslims living there who had to flee and seek refuge in western countries who like killing Muslims but don’t like having them in their own countries as refugees.
Perhaps most Muslims worldwide fear the extremism of western governments that March into their homelands and destroy them.
And your comment more or less makes it clear that Islamophobia is hunky dory because Muslims should pay for the actions of a bunch of extremists.
I get that you must dislike Muslims it is patently clear, but if is ok to hate a whole people because of the sins of a few, that is also applicable in non Muslim situations around the world.
Was through with this thread before but am certainly through now.

Oreo that is a highly offensive thing you say about innocent Muslims worldwide.

That is not what Oreo said at all.

Are you denying that terrorism exists?

silverlining48

And Israel hasn’t wrought death and destruction in Gaza and Lebanon. ? Any rockets aimed at Israel are destroyed by their iron dome system which has meant few if any Israeli civilians have died or been injured since 7/8 October.

On the other hand, nearly 50,000 so far, mostly women and children have been killed and thousands more injured by the rockets aimed at Gaza which has no protection, no iron dome. Can we begin to imagine what that must be like. Palestinians have been dehumanised, they are for the most part ordinary people with ordinary lives loving their children and wanting to live in peace.

Israel as the powerful country with powerful friends has broken the rules of war time and time again. Netanyahu is a criminal and today is the last day of a 3 week warning the USA gave Israel insisting Israel allow food and medical aid into Gaza…..they have done nothing. What will America do? Absolutely nothing and Israel knows it. So the starvation and slaughter goes on until what?
There won’t be peace, Netanyahu has other plans for Gaza the West Bank and Jerusalem and that doesn’t include a Palestinian state.

This has zilch to do with certain Dutch thugs beating up Israeli Jews in Amsterdam there is already a thread discussing the war in Gaza.

Babs03 you’re grasping the wrong end of the stick.

Anniebach

They must regret voting for Hamas , or perhaps not

Some do some don’t!

I guess that’s why Dutch leaders and Macron are saying they are acts of disgraceful antisemitism then hey?

Oreo

Wyllow3

I know they have Annie, but feel I can't support the current regime in all their decisions.
But thats hardly news, since there are disagreements within Israel itself. But many people don't see that from the outside.

When you have a group of young Israelis chanting anti Arab slogans (not anti Hamas, just anti Arab as such), couldn't Netanyahu suggest this isn't a great way forward as well as rightfully condemning the attacks.

Israel is reeling from the murders of Oct 7th and the daily missiles ever since.Yes, they are retaliating and the feeling against Arabs is strong, what do you expect? In this case in Holland it was the pro Palestinians and supporters of terrorist groups that organised attacks on SM before the fans ever arrived in the country.This is a proven fact.

No Oreo Maccabi Tel Aviv Ultras are racist thugs and have been long before Oct 7th.

They must regret voting for Hamas , or perhaps not

And Israel hasn’t wrought death and destruction in Gaza and Lebanon. ? Any rockets aimed at Israel are destroyed by their iron dome system which has meant few if any Israeli civilians have died or been injured since 7/8 October.

On the other hand, nearly 50,000 so far, mostly women and children have been killed and thousands more injured by the rockets aimed at Gaza which has no protection, no iron dome. Can we begin to imagine what that must be like. Palestinians have been dehumanised, they are for the most part ordinary people with ordinary lives loving their children and wanting to live in peace.

Israel as the powerful country with powerful friends has broken the rules of war time and time again. Netanyahu is a criminal and today is the last day of a 3 week warning the USA gave Israel insisting Israel allow food and medical aid into Gaza…..they have done nothing. What will America do? Absolutely nothing and Israel knows it. So the starvation and slaughter goes on until what?
There won’t be peace, Netanyahu has other plans for Gaza the West Bank and Jerusalem and that doesn’t include a Palestinian state.

Post references deleted post Talk guidelines.

Wyllow3

Annie, unless I am mistaken, it is Netanyahu who advised his citizens to stay away from such events, (for the next week, according to Sky News) not the countries with footie matches coming up asking they don't come.

"The Israeli government has told its citizens not to attend cultural or sports events abroad over the next week following violence in Amsterdam"

For example the footie match coming up in France, this Thursday, where

"In Paris, police said that 4,000 police officers will be deployed for Thursday's football match between France and Israel.

President Emmanuel Macron will attend the game, a gesture aimed at sending "a message of fraternity and solidarity after the intolerable acts of antisemitism that followed the match in Amsterdam", his office said."

Good for Macron. And good for the French government banning any Palestinian flags in the stadium for the match. French flags fine, Israeli flags fine. They certainly do not want a repeat performance of what happened at PSG against Atlético Madrid last week.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Wyllow3

I know they have Annie, but feel I can't support the current regime in all their decisions.
But thats hardly news, since there are disagreements within Israel itself. But many people don't see that from the outside.

When you have a group of young Israelis chanting anti Arab slogans (not anti Hamas, just anti Arab as such), couldn't Netanyahu suggest this isn't a great way forward as well as rightfully condemning the attacks.

Israel is reeling from the murders of Oct 7th and the daily missiles ever since.Yes, they are retaliating and the feeling against Arabs is strong, what do you expect? In this case in Holland it was the pro Palestinians and supporters of terrorist groups that organised attacks on SM before the fans ever arrived in the country.This is a proven fact.

Wyllow3

Just to say Annie this all makes me feel sick too, because it feels a dreadful, irresolvable problem, with so much suffering. Every day looking at the suffering within that region.

I feel that some of what we are experiencing relates to decisions by a specific regime in Israel and Jewish people are being blamed en masse because of that.

The Jewish people are always blamed en masse it crops up with depressing regularity.
Israel doesn’t need to do anything at all and still Jews will be attacked verbally and physically.
Reading threads on this forum adds to the depression.

Anniebach

Wyllow given the Pogroms, the Holocaust, all the history they have a homeland,

Palestinians had a homeland too.

Wyllow given the Pogroms, the Holocaust, all the history they have a homeland,

I know they have Annie, but feel I can't support the current regime in all their decisions.
But thats hardly news, since there are disagreements within Israel itself. But many people don't see that from the outside.

When you have a group of young Israelis chanting anti Arab slogans (not anti Hamas, just anti Arab as such), couldn't Netanyahu suggest this isn't a great way forward as well as rightfully condemning the attacks.

Wyllow history shows Jews have always been subjected to hatred for no reason, the Jewish faith isn’t pressed on communities of individuals

And with that will bid you all a good day.
Is like talking into the wind for both sides.

@Annie your feelings are my feelings but for very different reasons, your feelings of being attacked personally by antisemitism has the support and sympathy of every western leader/government and most of their populations, my feelings of being attacked personally count for absolutely nothing.

Just to say Annie this all makes me feel sick too, because it feels a dreadful, irresolvable problem, with so much suffering. Every day looking at the suffering within that region.

I feel that some of what we are experiencing relates to decisions by a specific regime in Israel and Jewish people are being blamed en masse because of that.

Babs03

@Freya

‘Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.’

That statement right there is a fine example if Islamophobia - to actually say ‘whatever that is’ as if it is not worthy of consideration.
Thanks for making my point perfectly!
Muslims may not all be one race but they certainly are treated with dehumanising racial hatred.
To only see one form of horrible racism and refuse to even recognise the other is at the core of what is being discussed on this thread.
My OH isn’t Muslim but sone family members are, and these who have attacked or subjected him or his family to Islamophobia with attacks both verbal or physical are not imagined, they are very real.
So if you are still wondering what Islamophobia is perhaps just ask someone first before showing your ignorance.

I second that - and I do have a close family member who comes from a Muslim family.

Freya5

Wyllow3

It may have taken place within the context of footie conflict, but it was intensely political from both sides of this terrible conflict.

Yes I am a "try to see it from both sides" and both anti semitism and anti Arab/Islam events were carried out.

Levels of planning when it's called "Jew Hunt" are clearly anti semitic and I expect arrests will follow as did the riots in the UK for SM plans - I hope so. but who is carrying the costs in terms of innocents killed in Palestine and now Lebanon.

Nevertheless, as long as the current Israeli regime continues some of its policies, these protests and worse won't stop.

Disband Hamas. Problem solved.

If only ...