Should Justin Welby resign?

I'll leave it there.

Winchester College is such a NICE school! Or should I say "naice". I know someone who went there to board.

Anything I say is not a criticism of the CofE as such, but of any group that has an open secret and does not do the right thing until they are forced to. Many professions have things they cover up, even when people have died as a result of negligence etc. But this does not excuse anything.

Sexual abuse is the worst abuse and to have that done by someone who is a leader or supposed to represent something holy, is so much worse. If you don't know how he hid it from his wife maybe you don't know that abusers can be extremely personable and wonderful liars, very convincing.

His wife MAY have had an inkling, but we don't know how he treated HER or if she was lied to, charmed and just could never see it. We don't know if he beat HER. Many abusers hide in plain sight and are extremely charismatic so everyone loves them and it's harder for anyone to believe they are an abuser.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

Yes, of course this is how it continues, and at Winchester College too.
Some parents of Smyth’s victims raised concerns about his apparent hold over their children with Winchester college staff. Euan MacAlpine, a former housemaster, told an internal investigation in 2017: “We all suspected but never got together to discuss it.” In 1979, he told one parent: “The whole thing really is most awkward since none of us housemasters can tackle Smyth directly.”

Smyth was married with children and managed to abuse boys from Winchester at his home, in the garden shed, after he and his wife entertained them for lunch and continued for years. He remained married.
Did she suspect nothing?

Cabbie21

winchester.anglican.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/A-letter-to-the-Diocese-of-Winchester-from-Bishop-Philip.pdf

This is a link to a statement from the Bishop of Winchester, the area where John Smyth lived.

Well, it's an awkward thing for The Bishop of Winchester to have to write that letter (but not as awkward as living with a lifetime of abuse and the effects of that as those boys/men have)

Yes, he's friends with JW and he kindly says nice things about him, but what would any of us do in that position? Slander a former colleague publically even if we are hugely disappointed by them? No.

The Bishop of Winchester is in an awkward position , especially as this is happened in his Diocese and yet he has to be middle of the road. He can't be seen to be critical of JW and yet he has to support the victims and truth.

Allira

00opsidia I posted a link earlier to a report about the Makin review.
Part of it reports:

^The Revd David Fletcher, who was told of the abuse in 1981 and is identified as the heart of the cover-up, told the review before he died: “I thought it would do the work of God immense damage if this were public.” Canon Michael Green, one of the C of E’s most prominent Evangelists, was, the review says, “sworn to secrecy”.^

Yes I started reading it yesterday but fell asleep. I will at some point get through it all.

I see the reasoning behind what RevDF says, BUT keeping secrets is what helps abuse thrive. Abuse is NOT God's work, so I think keeping bad secrets is not the answer.| No doubt the truth WILL do harm to the C of E, but it would have done LESS harm if they had not covered it up.

It's a shame they did not read their bibles. Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed.

It always amazes me that, some people who believe in an Omnipotent God conveniently forget what that actually means- that even though they hide their deeds before men, GOD sees their hearts and so their works are futile.

winchester.anglican.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/A-letter-to-the-Diocese-of-Winchester-from-Bishop-Philip.pdf

This is a link to a statement from the Bishop of Winchester, the area where John Smyth lived.

Mollygo

00opsidia

You cannot be a true spiritual guide who shares the truth and at the same time be a fake that hides the truth.

You cannot, and you should not.

The problem is that leaders in many religions do that. They either commit the abuse, support the abuse, or ignore the abuse.
Among other examples, think of the Magdalene Laundries, the treatment of women in some countries, and the matter under discussion here.

Yes, it is and always has been the truth that those in leadership can be evil even if they are in a position of trust and a position that is supposed to be good.

We have seen it many times and the Magdalane Laundries are such a sad truth.

This is why I said Pride before a Fall. The Cof E has prided itself on many things and those who kept quiet did so out of a misguided loyalty to a denomination that Jesus himself would shake the dust off his feet from because of their determination to hide the truth.

00opsidia I posted a link earlier to a report about the Makin review.
Part of it reports:

The Revd David Fletcher, who was told of the abuse in 1981 and is identified as the heart of the cover-up, told the review before he died: “I thought it would do the work of God immense damage if this were public.” Canon Michael Green, one of the C of E’s most prominent Evangelists, was, the review says, “sworn to secrecy”.

I haven’t seen that figure anywhere. The key people who knew early on were prominent clergy but not bishops.
Only a few of the victims were under 16. Not young children. Most were young men, adults: that’s not to say their lives have not been traumatised by these events. Most have not received the kind of support they need.
I do not understand why no action was taken when it was eventually reported. So many people are culpable, yet only JW is shouldering the responsibility.

00opsidia

You cannot be a true spiritual guide who shares the truth and at the same time be a fake that hides the truth.

You cannot, and you should not.

The problem is that leaders in many religions do that. They either commit the abuse, support the abuse, or ignore the abuse.
Among other examples, think of the Magdalene Laundries, the treatment of women in some countries, and the matter under discussion here.

Susieq62 I have just read Starmer’s apology for not doing more in the Jimmy Savile case. Starmer did head up the CPS. There have been some choice comments about Welby on this thread which are quite bizarre - he’s ungodly - well best not say for heaven’s sake but the police and the CPS need to show accountability for their lack of action over Smyth and the public is entitled to a full explanation.

foxie48

The problem here includes the age old issue. Man abuses children. Children complain, adults let them down

I'd add another bit to that Iam64

"adults let them down because they'd rather protect the reputation of an organisation than an innocent and vulnerable child"

I am totally sickened by the hypocrisy. Welby, new to the post of Archbishop of Canterbury was in the perfect position to set an example but basically dodged his responsibility, totally unforgiveable!

I cant find the comment now, but someone said that 100 Bishops knew and kept quiet, not just JW.

So I googled how many Bishops there are in UK and google said 108. Am floored. So it seems that 100 Bishops out of 108 KNEW and did nothing.

Somebody tell me I got this wrong. Please. Because I'd rather be wrong.

If I'm not wrong, they all kept quiet, JW included. It is going to blow up even bigger and rightly so. You cannot be a true spiritual guide who shares the truth and at the same time be a fake that hides the truth. So he should have never been BoC. Pride comes before a fall.

This is not only a fall for JW, but for the Anglican church if 100 Bishops truly knew and did nothing.

Cabbie21

I have read the whole report.
Ok so JW has now taken responsibility, but long before 2013 a number of others knew all about Smyth and deliberately covered it up. A victim came forward in 2013 and the relevant Bishop was informed and reported it to Hampshire police, who failed to progress with the case. The Archbishop has no jurisdiction over another bishop’s Diocese, and he was wrongly informed that the police were dealing with the case and did not personally take it further until it came out on tv in 2017.

JW is right to accept responsibility now, but there are many others, some now dead, who should have acted responsibly long ago. The whole set up of safeguarding has failed( though back in the 70ies and 80ies safeguarding was hardly recognised.)

JW is right to accept responsibility now, but there are many others, some now dead, who should have acted responsibly long ago.
He's not the only one. Many others were aware.

Why is Ronib obsessed by Starmer ???
Get a life woman or should I say get a better one and direct your anger at those who abuse their power especially under the cover of their faith !!!!

Your wishes are met and he has resigned !!!

I started to read the long paper about it all,but fell asleep part way.

Yes there definitely needs to be an enquiry.

But Welby did not cover up. He handed the report over to the police. Welby’s crime was to not hold the police accountable and he failed to chase for a progress report. Let’s see how the police explain this. There needs to be an enquiry surely?

I'm late to this but if I'd seen it at the begining I'd have said a resounding YES.

Justin is not the only one who helped cover this up , but the fact that he kept quiet is very unsettling and wrong. Boys and men were invalidated for YEARS about this, impacting the suffering even MORE.

The CofE KNOW there are others. I know of some where I live that have been hushed up.I had always thought there was something unGodly about Justin Welby and I could not place what it was, but you cannot carry that kind of secret without it affecting you to the core on a spiritual and moral level.

Resigning was the only right thing he could do.

JW should be so ashamed pushing these crimes under the mat. He's guilty of cover ups. He would have been a hero if he had sorted this when it first came to light. No excuse.
The victims lives have been seriously effected now his has. He has completely ruined his career, his family life.
The CofE need to be very careful, there will be more , victims will have the courage to report now.

Yes he certainly should- sick of reading about these people of responsibility covering up for paedophiles

We are poisoned by the privilege of others
No one cares about the poor and the vulnerable, it was ever thus

Iam64 nothing is as pathetic as the severe shortcomings of the people who didn’t do their jobs properly. Not just Welby. What is wrong with this country?

The problem here includes the age old issue. Man abuses children. Children complain, adults let them down

I'd add another bit to that Iam64

"adults let them down because they'd rather protect the reputation of an organisation than an innocent and vulnerable child"

I am totally sickened by the hypocrisy. Welby, new to the post of Archbishop of Canterbury was in the perfect position to set an example but basically dodged his responsibility, totally unforgiveable!

Smyth was a sadistic pervert. What a shame he avoided justice by dying.

ronib as ever, is desperate to blame Starmer for the lack on prosecution, as others have said it hadn’t been referred to the cps when Starmer worked there.
Your reference to Saville, ronib, is pathetic.

The problem here includes the age old issue. Man abuses chikdren. Children complain, adults let them down