Should Justin Welby resign?

Blimey. There’s more ….

A former chaplain to the late Queen is among four priests who have had their licences suspended by the Church following a damning abuse report.

The Diocese of London has withdrawn permission to officiate (PTO) from three clergy pending an investigation into their involvement in the abuse perpetrated by John Smyth, while the Diocese of Gloucester said it had suspended the PTO of Rev Nick Stott, a priest from Cheltenham.

These rotten men. It’s rife.

He may not have been defrocked but simple decency should stop him carrying out any duties, including social events. His reported comments to Ian Hislop confirm he still doesn’t get it

He should be locked up, aiding and abetting a paedophile.

He has not been defrocked

What's.going to happen at Christmas? Surely Archbishop Welby won't be conducting Midnight Mass or Mass on Xmas morning ? Hardly appropriate I'd have thought?!

Yes, that report is good on "now and into the future" but sparse on the past, just this bit relevant in that report

"Of course, many will want to know what happens next in terms of holding to account those who are implicated by the Report’s conclusions.

This lies in the hands of colleagues in the national safeguarding team, in the Church’s legal team, and in dioceses.

It would not be appropriate for me to speak in relation to any individuals, but I want to assure you that there is a careful and robust process for examining any new evidence, reviewing any previous decisions that have been made, and deciding what should happen next

www.churchofengland.org/safeguarding/safeguarding-news-releases/pastoral-letter-lead-bishop-safeguarding-safeguarding-sunday-2024

I hope this link works. It shows an immediate response, a communication mainly for clergy and Safeguarding Officers in churches,
It seems nothing is going to happen quickly. There are a number of processes already in place. At a local level there is a very good system in place for training, appointing, DSB checks, reporting etc, but as to what happens higher up the chain I don’t know.
The number of Reports is worrying, especially as there is little transparency about what happens next. I haven’t read them all, but some say they are “preparing a response”

Excellent question.
I believe, but haven’t researched this yet , that an external Safeguarding board has been set up, independent of the C of E, so I guess they could be pursuing it.

00opsidia (and any others who might have ideas)

I'm genuinely interested in how you think matters should be furthered now. This thread has rightly explored the cover ups and the horror of the abuse, and made it clear that Welby's resignation alone doesn't do the job at all, but as above I asked,

"Clearly it's not all right in that others who had as great a part in cover-ups/fail to report.fail to push with police/police failures tho not ultimately responsible have been left in place - over 10's of years.

The huge question is, who decides who else should be asked to leave? How can it happen? Who makes the decisions?

To anyone who works in Safeguarding in ANY role or within the C of E or any other institution that has a responsibility for Safeguarding, Desmond Tutu says it best.

Thanks for the link MOnica. It makes disturbing reading

Thank you.
That was an interesting read, but I couldn't access the last part without a banner coming up, urging me to sign up to X.

Some names there to keep an eye out for.

But then, anyone with a shred of decency would never have behaved so criminally.

M0nica

Ian Hislop, in Private Eye this week has written an excoriating article on Justin Welby who, the day after his resignation from his position as Archbishop of Canterbury turned up at formal public event in London

Here is the link to what he wrote. You need to scroll down abit to get his article in readable form.
www.thepoke.com/2024/11/21/ian-hislop-wrote-in-private-eye-about-meeting-justin-welby-the-day-after-he-resigned-and-its-a-devastating-important-read/

Thankyou M0nica, that was interesting. How awful Jusin Welby carrying on as usual the day after he had resigned. Anyone with a shred of decency would at least lie low a while.

Thank you Monica

Thanks M0nica

M0nica

Ian Hislop, in Private Eye this week has written an excoriating article on Justin Welby who, the day after his resignation from his position as Archbishop of Canterbury turned up at formal public event in London

Here is the link to what he wrote. You need to scroll down abit to get his article in readable form.
www.thepoke.com/2024/11/21/ian-hislop-wrote-in-private-eye-about-meeting-justin-welby-the-day-after-he-resigned-and-its-a-devastating-important-read/

I take Private Eye and was impressed with I Hislop’s article.

Did you read the Craig Brown diary entry about Nigel Slater? I wept with laughter.

Ian Hislop, in Private Eye this week has written an excoriating article on Justin Welby who, the day after his resignation from his position as Archbishop of Canterbury turned up at formal public event in London

Here is the link to what he wrote. You need to scroll down abit to get his article in readable form.
www.thepoke.com/2024/11/21/ian-hislop-wrote-in-private-eye-about-meeting-justin-welby-the-day-after-he-resigned-and-its-a-devastating-important-read/

Esmay

OO0psidia , yes I fully agree with you .
There are some genetic factors involved as well as abuse .
It has been proved scientifically .
In the case of the third man that I mentioned I do know that his maternal grandfather was a violent man and that his wife and daughters were terrified of him .
His brother was admitted to a mental hospital , his sister
could be volatile and verbally abusive and certainly his daughter
is prone to violent explosions of temper and a son has become like him .
Tiptoeing around this family is an understatement .

Thanks Esmay, that does make sense. It's very sad isn't it.

I have also seen these things run in families. The problem is, people used to "put up and shut up", which only facilitates abuse and ruins the health and wellbeing of those who suffer silently. Although it is traumatic reading all the offences, I am glad for the victims that they finally found a way to be heard, because they deserve it, and they deserve peace.

Things that used to be brushed under the rug, are starting to burst out and people are beginning to realise what a problem there is with abuse. It may not be savory, but the truth rarely is.

Conveniently, Justin Welby is on his holidays while the victims and everyone who cares about the victims is on tenterhooks wondering how they will move forwards.

The date of January 6th has been given (reported on BBC 18 hours ago)

Clearly it's not all right in that others who had as great a part in cover-ups/fail to report.fail to push with police/police failures tho not ultimately responsible have been left in place - over 10's of years.

The huge question is, who decides who else should be asked to leave? How can it happen? Who makes the decisions?

Nobody has said it’s all right, but there are maybe three more compelling concerns.
Support for the victims.
Calling out those who initially covered up for Smyth ( most have died) and those directly involved in not pursuing the case.
Changing attitudes, processes, theology even if necessary.

He has agreed to resign but not said exactly when, but will maintain a low profile until he finally goes.
So that's all right then?

Iam64

There is something particularly horrific about the use of faith and ritual in abusing children.

Paedphiles aand sexual perverst will use any means they can to gain access to vulnerable people they can abuse. That is why so many of them can be found in all the caring professions. From that point of view by professing a religion and getting deep into it, offers unparalleled opportunities for abuse.

The more so because, on one side, so many genuine and committed believers are often accepting and forgiving of 'sinners' and want to help them, from the best of motives, and many people who have trangressed society bounds ( I am not talking about sexual abuse) have indeed turned their lives round through accepting the hand of friendship from a committed member of a religion.

Unfortunately, this makes it easier for the person who wishes to use religious belief for irrelegious purposes, to hide or explain away their behaviour.

OO0psidia , yes I fully agree with you .
There are some genetic factors involved as well as abuse .
It has been proved scientifically .
In the case of the third man that I mentioned I do know that his maternal grandfather was a violent man and that his wife and daughters were terrified of him .
His brother was admitted to a mental hospital , his sister
could be volatile and verbally abusive and certainly his daughter
is prone to violent explosions of temper and a son has become like him .
Tiptoeing around this family is an understatement .

Iam64

There is something particularly horrific about the use of faith and ritual in abusing children.

Yes it's horrific, that's why it's Spiritual abuse, but covers the other areas of emotional, sexual and physical too.

In terms of Paraphilia's , technically "green apples" is called Hebephilia (ages 11-14) or Ephebophilia (ages 15 to 19) depending on the age of the child. Younger than 11 is Paedophilia. We can be frank, Smyth deserves no politeness.