Should Justin Welby resign?

If someone is coercively controlling you, there's every chance you love them even if you also know they are an abuser.

I am not sure I will ever understand that.

It effectively means you have lost your mind? Does it not?
Or are not bothered about someone abusing others.

If someone is coercively controlling you, there's every chance you love them even if you also know they are an abuser. You can choose to walk away even if you love them because you know you will get over them in time, but you won't get over their abuse to your kids, ever.
It might be hard for people to understand unless they have decided to leave a marriage for similar reasons.

MOnica, I agree with your post. We need to understand coercive control, of course but shouldn’t forget some women are complicit in the awful abuse their children are subjected to by their father/father figure.
I’ve been following the Sara Sharrif trial - it’s harrowing with all 3 adults being tried for murder or allowing the death of the child

Iam64

Did anyone else watch Cathy Newman on ch4 interviewing JP Smyth, the abuser’s son. What a courageous man. He talked about his own experience of severe beatings from the age of 7 - 11 by his father, in the garden shed. Mum kept a book of his misdemeanours which would be dealt with by dad on his return from work. Some so severe, both parents would administer cream

Oh I missed that programme @Iam64 but I did know about the book (so cruel) as it was mentioned in the Makin report.

PJ used to be Pastor of a church in Washington DC called Monument Church. Later on PJ admitted he had not been honest with them about his background. He now works as a public speaker (secular) Yes very courageous.

@M0nica I do agree with you. It is the hardest thing ever to leave someone who has brainwashed you when you still love them but only you can know how abusive they are and that they will not change.

As a Mother MOST women I think would put the kids first even if they are completely unsupported and all the friend's sided with him because he would have told lies. I don't know as a Mother and as a human how you could live with yourself if you turned a blind eye to your child's suffering (or another child's)

It's been an incredibly hard life for PJ. So much suffering and he should have been protected.

I have nothing but contempt for a mother who keeps a book of a child's misdemeanours so his father can beat him, and provides disposable nappies and cream so that the child beaten so severely he is bleeding, does not bleed on the furniture.

You can tell me all you like about coercian and abuse, but the point most women leave is when their children are threatened. That is why is so many court cases when a man kills a child, his wife/partner will also be prosecuted.

There have to be limits and for me a wife who is complicit and colludes with violence being inflicted on her child, is contemptable.

She may have been Allira. Her son implied the entire family were victims of his father. I haven’t read the Makin report. Another shocking aspect of the lack of action of bishops and arch bishops was the absence of a referral to Children’s Services to assess and safeguard Smyth’s own children

00opsidia

Iam64

OldFrill, your kind interpretation of Smyth’s wife’s collusive behaviour may have some truth but - she made choices

Yes she did have choices. In this country.

It was probably a lot harder when the abuser managed to get her all the way to Africa though. That's what they do, they isolate.

It seems that she was complicit rather than cowed and coerced.

Did anyone else watch Cathy Newman on ch4 interviewing JP Smyth, the abuser’s son. What a courageous man. He talked about his own experience of severe beatings from the age of 7 - 11 by his father, in the garden shed. Mum kept a book of his misdemeanours which would be dealt with by dad on his return from work. Some so severe, both parents would administer cream

Perhaps, I hope so.

I’m not sure the Gideon Pelicot case will help women open up about abusive partners. Her experience seems extraordinary

We don't know and it is concerning. I think at least they should interview her, if they haven't already. After the Gisele Pelicot case it must be somehow easier to open up about spousal abuse.

I'm imagining that she wholeheartedly supported him, but you have to wonder if she ever felt any twinges of misgiving?

Yes I accept that OOopsidia. We don’t know enough to judge but her behaviour is concerning

Iam64

OldFrill, your kind interpretation of Smyth’s wife’s collusive behaviour may have some truth but - she made choices

Yes she did have choices. In this country.

It was probably a lot harder when the abuser managed to get her all the way to Africa though. That's what they do, they isolate.

OldFrill, your kind interpretation of Smyth’s wife’s collusive behaviour may have some truth but - she made choices

Quote 00opsidia Mon 18-Nov-24 12:59:10
Anniebach
Grandchildren attend Church
Maybe it's not a C of E church, there are plenty of other Christian denominations.

Grandchildren attended Church of England services and
Church in Wales services

Anniebach

Grandchildren attend Church

Maybe it's not a C of E church, there are plenty of other Christian denominations.

Grandchildren attend Church

petra

OldFrill

They should read the Report out instead of a sermon.

There were graphic descriptions of the abuse in that report.
I wouldn’t want my grandchildren to know of/ hear these details.
Also, triggering people who are still being abused.

It was a generalisation FFS.

00opsidia

TakeThat7

An abuse investigator was sacked by archbishop Canterbury and the churches number two They weren't happy with how she was doing Shocked that the people being investigated could sack the person bringing out the truth Is it one rule. for the church and another forthe average person Why are they not being questioned about cover up Was inthe mail

Yes but if they can sack a Bishop who tries to reveal and deal with abuse, of course they can sack someone else who dares to bring out the truth.

I missed it. There has just been SO MUCH NONSENSE to read.

His wife handed out the adult nappies and ointment so the boys didn't bleed on the furtniture. It's in the report.

I am so sick about the people in my community who I have blindly trusted in the past. I have been uncovering some stuff and I am so disappointed for all the cover ups. Who do these people think they are? More important than God himself? They are certainly loving themselves more than anyone and keeping the truth covered up, which is the very opposite of their purpose.

If his wife was subject to his coercive control she had no choice. Like the victims who went on to beat other victims, they are still victims.

TakeThat7

How could she not know it happened in a. Shed in their garden

If the report does not assume she knew we cannot make that leap.
It was a specially built soundproofed building. If she was living with a coercive sadist she is a victim, as is his son.

TakeThat7

An abuse investigator was sacked by archbishop Canterbury and the churches number two They weren't happy with how she was doing Shocked that the people being investigated could sack the person bringing out the truth Is it one rule. for the church and another forthe average person Why are they not being questioned about cover up Was inthe mail

Yes but if they can sack a Bishop who tries to reveal and deal with abuse, of course they can sack someone else who dares to bring out the truth.

I missed it. There has just been SO MUCH NONSENSE to read.

His wife handed out the adult nappies and ointment so the boys didn't bleed on the furtniture. It's in the report.

I am so sick about the people in my community who I have blindly trusted in the past. I have been uncovering some stuff and I am so disappointed for all the cover ups. Who do these people think they are? More important than God himself? They are certainly loving themselves more than anyone and keeping the truth covered up, which is the very opposite of their purpose.

How could she not know it happened in a. Shed in their garden

Don't they just know from the victims and she had to know

00opsidia

petra

OOosidia
How true. Meanwhile his wife who facilitated these horrors is still living comfortably in South Africa 😡

Is she? How do we know this?

I don't know how some people sleep at night.

The Report clearly states that it is not known if Smyth's wife knew about the abuse and/or was a subject of his well documented coercive control.
If she was being coerced she (as stated in the Report) too is a victim.

Apparently Dame Jasvinder in June2023?