Should Justin Welby resign?

ronib

Allira the teachers at Winchester were aware of the abuse and in these circumstances parents should be immediately notified. What an almighty shambles.

Where someone worries more about the image of their organisation, whether that be the C of E, the Post Office, the NHS with the contaminated blood scandal, etc, there will continue to be victims whose voices go unheard

Winchester College - implicit in the etcetera.

Allira the teachers at Winchester were aware of the abuse and in these circumstances parents should be immediately notified. What an almighty shambles.

OldFrill

ronib

I think the current situation of making the Archbishop or Pope entirely responsible is fraught with problems and still contributes to an unsafe environment.

Exactly, the report is quite clear where failures were made and, as well as Welby, who failed. The victims are clear who they feel failed.
There should be more resignations
Bryan Conway is top of the list.

*apologies Stephen Conway, Bishop of Lincoln

ronib

MissAdventure in what way? Well it hasn’t been fool proof in the past and it won’t be in the future.
As a mother, I would have screeched the place down if any of my children had been abused in this way!

Your child might have hidden this from you and been made to feel it was their fault this happened.

ronib

I think the current situation of making the Archbishop or Pope entirely responsible is fraught with problems and still contributes to an unsafe environment.

Exactly, the report is quite clear where failures were made and, as well as Welby, who failed. The victims are clear who they feel failed.
There should be more resignations
Bryan Conway is top of the list.

It's not current thinking.

If there is no robust system in place where people know that their concerns will be taken seriously and acted upon at the highest level, the person at the top is in the wrong job.

Where someone worries more about the image of their organisation, whether that be the C of E, the Post Office, the NHS with the contaminated blood scandal, etc, there will continue to be victims whose voices go unheard.

MissAdventure in what way? Well it hasn’t been fool proof in the past and it won’t be in the future.
As a mother, I would have screeched the place down if any of my children had been abused in this way!

In what way?

I think the current situation of making the Archbishop or Pope entirely responsible is fraught with problems and still contributes to an unsafe environment.

ronib

So where does this leave the former head of Winchester College whose pupils suffered abuse from Smyth ? Did he not have ultimate responsibility?

Well, as he has died, I'm not sure.

So where does this leave the former head of Winchester College whose pupils suffered abuse from Smyth ? Did he not have ultimate responsibility?

"President Truman had a no-nonsense approach to decision making. The sign, “The Buck Stops Here” on his desk reflected his belief that he was ultimately responsible for the actions of his administration."

foxie48

No one is assigning blame they're surely assigning ultimate responsibility, not the same thing at all.

Yes.

Yes.
That's the joys of being head of an organisation.

So for example the Pope will be ultimately responsible for abuse in the Catholic Church? A headteacher in a school and so on?

Good point, well made.

No one is assigning blame they're surely assigning ultimate responsibility, not the same thing at all.

ronib

Safeguarding is everyone’s business in my book. Not only the person at the top but anyone who has any involvement- parents, teachers, clergy and police. To conveniently assign blame to the head of the church doesn’t safeguard children and young adults into the future.

However many people in any organisation carry responsibility the Head of the organisation carries ultimate responsibility ronib. You know that, we all do.

All of those other people would be part of a safeguarding investigation, obviously.
They would be asked when they were told, what they saw... but not by the person raising the safeguarding issue - by the police.

Safeguarding is everyone’s business in my book. Not only the person at the top but anyone who has any involvement- parents, teachers, clergy and police. To conveniently assign blame to the head of the church doesn’t safeguard children and young adults into the future.

Every large organisation deals with significant allegations daily. That’s why there are safeguarding policies and procedures. If serious allegations involve a friend and colleague wouldnt most people, however busy, want to know the outcome.

The timeline shows Welby was a dormitory officer at Iwerne holiday camp in the lat 70’s and knew Smyth. The review concludes that while Welby ‘did have reason to have some concern about him’ this wasn’t the same as suspecting he had committed ‘severe abuses’
The Makin review says by July 2013 the CofE knew at the highest level about the abuse. Abuse within the Catholic Church and the cover ups there was widely known and should have influenced the senior people involved to ensure a comprehensive Police investigation.
The head of any organisation that fails so spectacularly must resign.

Safeguarding takes preference over any other work.

Both from a moral point of view, and a practical, legal one.

There is no possible excuse ronib. If you are aware of sexual abuse of children taking place in your organisation you have to take responsibility for making absolutely sure that the allegation is followed up. No mitigating circumstances are more important than keeping children safe from harm.

Iam64 I wonder what the work load is like for the Archbishop of Canterbury? Quite encompassing I imagine with an amount of State occasions plus a lot of work involving the rest of the Anglican Church in the world.
So it seems that abuse cases were not infrequent and in the Smyth case were forwarded to the police by the Archbishop’s assistant. It’s called delegation. So the error in process seems to be that there was not an assigned person to follow up and liaise with the relevant police force. Hopefully this will be remedied and followed through in future?

Mollygo - we haven’t yet had a similar scandal involving Mosques but anyone working with children and families will have many examples. I may be wrong but my impression is the power of the Mosque currently is similar to the power the Catholic Church had.
Then there are the more closed religious communities, Jehovah’s, Mormon, Amish and ultra religious Jewish groups.
What we have learned is that organisations, institutions are places where a damaging culture can develop.
Sadly, it seems we have to keep re-learning it.

I remember not too long ago on gransnet being informed that those of us who’d worked in safeguarding ‘saw abuse everywhere’. Thankfully that mindset is reducing