Starmer declines to rule out council tax rise.

Then a bureaucracy has to develop to "chase them up" - nightmare waste of money to take from where?

That aside a lot wouldn't register to save the cash, especially the poor and the young.

👏👏

"On the side those expected to pay it the argument was that it placed a large tax burden on the poor and it wasn't at all progressive, as rich and poor alike paid the same per person."

that whole point, really.

I don't recall much detail (I was very bound up with firsst baby at the time) but a quick google tells me that it was incredibly difficult for councils to administer as they had to establish how many adults were in each household. That would be especially difficult in areas with large student populations. Tracing people who hadn't paid but who had moved on would be difficult. All in all it didn't bring in the expected revenue because it cost so much to administer.

On the side those expected to pay it the argument was that it placed a large tax burden on the poor and it wasn't at all progressive, as rich and poor alike paid the same per person.

It looks like an attractive solution, but it's just not practicable..

David49

There isn’t going to be a poll tax it’s not on the agenda, expect more tightening of benefits and taxation of individuals.

I don’t think it is on the agenda. I was questioning why it is so unpopular, is all.

And not just a small cut.

Taking the period 2010–11 to 2024–25 as a whole, councils' overall core funding is set to be 9% lower in real terms and 18% lower in real terms per person this year than at the start of the 2010s.7 Jun 2024
ifs.org.uk › publications › h...
How have English councils' funding and spending changed? 2010 to 2024 | Institute for Fiscal Studies - IFS

Services are cut because the amount given to local councils by central government was either cut each year or failed to stay in line with inflation. During the tory regime councils had serious real term cuts in their budget allocations. Council funding is a mix of Council tax and central government grant. Council tax goes nowhere near being adequate to pay for council services.

David Cameron introduced the system where councils could put up CT by 3%, plus another 2% for social care.

Our council has applied this every year since.

So, not much has changed.

However, services are being cut every year.

In answer to 'wheniwasyourage' maybe you should consider other people who might be struggling to pay.
You may think you are not paying enough but for some it is a considerable amount of their income. Be careful what you wish for!
Our library was moved to share a building with the Medical Centre and is now used for various functions.
Libraries are not used like they used to be and have to move with the times

There isn’t going to be a poll tax it’s not on the agenda, expect more tightening of benefits and taxation of individuals.

If they did that here we would be in trouble because we have to vote by law, even in the stupid local council elections. They know very few would bother I suppose. You can , however, ‘pretend’ to vote and get signed off and just spoil your ballot paper though not very many actually do that.

You had to register to pay the poll tax and if you weren't registered you couldn't vote (I think that's right from memory). It was imposed on the Scots a year before England/Wales and went down like sugar on porridge.Mass demos and 'don't pay' campaigns leading to the Poll Tax Riots. People simply didn't register so it was impossible to trace them to enforce it.
Everyone paid the same rate set by the local council, irrespective of their wealth/earnings.Students/unemployed 20%, don't know what pensioners paid as l wasn't one then.
Contributed to ousting Thatcher.
Noone should have to pay to vote - it may have been this wasn't actual practice but it certainly was the perception.

I know that poll tax was deeply unpopular, but why? It replaced a system based on houses' rateable value, which was pretty much the same as council tax, and that's not fair either.

Currently, there is no incentive for people to improve their lifestyle, as as soon as they do (eg by buying a house with more space for children) they are penalised. CT is just another form of means-test, which works against social mobility. Also, as the charge is per household rather than per individual it means that some pay far more than others for access to the same services. I think that we should all pay for services (eg education or leisure centres) whether we use them or not, to spread the cost for those who do use them, but a family of (say) four adults in a household should pay twice as much as a couple, as there are twice as many people with access to the services in their area, twice as much rubbish to be collected and so on.

IMO, taxing everyone fairly in the first place, then leaving people with the rest of their income to spend (or save) as they wish without penalty is the fairest way to do it. The charge could be one bill for the household or one for each member, but it should be based on the number of adults living there, not the notional value of the house in 1990 or whenever the bandings took place.

As Casdon says some people will always be disadvantaged. It's not particular to Council Tax but is a feature of all policies applied in the mass. There are always marginal cases, cases which lie on one side or other of a line, features that can't readily be addressed in the mass. There are always complaints about this and sometimes government can adjust the policy in question or find ways to mitigate at the margin (though that sometimes means discriminating against an adjacent group) or allow officials to make exceptions (again, problematical as it usually means appeals). In the end it's really whether the disadvantaged can make their complaint stick - less likely in my view if your MP is on the government side or, worse still, a Minister.

Council tax rises every year - without fail. I’ve yet to see it decrease or stay the same.

grannybuy is it worth contacting one of your local councillors?

The disparity between different local councils is partly because of the different needs of the areas - ours is on the high side because of need/deprivation in parts of the city. The government has always been able to partly address that gap through grants, but not enough.

Oh, if you owe them money (or they claim you do due to an "administrative error") they set the Hounds of Hell after you!

Mollygo

grannybuy

Just an aside - I emailed my local council earlier this week with a council tax query. ( They don’t like telephone calls ). I received an automated reply saying that they aim to respond within 90 days. No rush.

If you owe them money, they will respond within three days!!!

Naturally 😂

biglouis

*@Doodledog. I think I would prefer CT to be levied based on number of adults in a household (with discounts and allowances for the disabled etc) rather than notional value of property. I may be missing something but I can’t see why council services cost more if someone lives in an expensive house, and property values are such a random way to assess ability to pay*

We dont often agree but I agree 100% with this. CT is VERY poor value for those who of us who live alone and are childfree.

That’s why you’ve been getting a single person discount on council tax for years.

grannybuy

Just an aside - I emailed my local council earlier this week with a council tax query. ( They don’t like telephone calls ). I received an automated reply saying that they aim to respond within 90 days. No rush.

If you owe them money, they will respond within three days!!!

David49

Personally I think the bandings should be extended to make those with mansions pay more, maybe that will happen.

I totally agree.

Just an aside - I emailed my local council earlier this week with a council tax query. ( They don’t like telephone calls ). I received an automated reply saying that they aim to respond within 90 days. No rush.

Personally I think the bandings should be extended to make those with mansions pay more, maybe that will happen.

David49

Nominally Council Tax is a wealth tax, those with the most wealth live in the largest houses, there are exceptions, single pensioners remaining in the family home are just one. It’s not possible to have a totally fair taxation system, council tax we have now is probably the best compromise.

I'm afraid that looking at what the different councils charge should disabuse you of the notion that CT is a wealth tax (though that is certainly what rates were based on over the centuries because the wealthy were the only people with money...)

I don't think any taxation system will please everyone. But local taxation is such a mess that it needs revising.

I wonder about a local sales tax, but with physical retail (as opposed to on line) dying so fast I doubt it would raise sufficient.

MaizieD

^Governments have struggled with this for years, it seems to me atm to make the bandings as fair as possible?^

While I mostly agree with you there is then the problem of those who are asset rich but cash poor. Like the elderly people in houses that, by being in the 'right' area, have soared in value since they bought them 20, 30, 40 years ago. They have every right to remain in their home for as long as they choose; not to be chased out by punitive charges, pressure to downsize, or generational disapproval.

There actually is no fair way of doing it, some people will be disadvantaged whatever method is used though.