Starmer declines to rule out council tax rise.

Given the state of Councils' finances after 14 years of Tory underfunding it seems inevitable that Council Tax will rise to pay for social care and lots of other services. In the short term that probably means a percentage rise across the bands or possibly one tailored to each band but in the longer term there needs to be a reform. At the moment it's all speculation attended by some scaremongering.

Governments have struggled with this for years, it seems to me atm to make the bandings as fair as possible?

While I mostly agree with you there is then the problem of those who are asset rich but cash poor. Like the elderly people in houses that, by being in the 'right' area, have soared in value since they bought them 20, 30, 40 years ago. They have every right to remain in their home for as long as they choose; not to be chased out by punitive charges, pressure to downsize, or generational disapproval.

Nominally Council Tax is a wealth tax, those with the most wealth live in the largest houses, there are exceptions, single pensioners remaining in the family home are just one. It’s not possible to have a totally fair taxation system, council tax we have now is probably the best compromise.

MaizieD

I know that google would tell me, but how would a local income tax work? Who would it be levied on?

Those that could afford it, thresholds would have to be set, in just the same way we have at present.
As now there would winners and losers depending on which side of the threshold you are.

@Doodledog. I think I would prefer CT to be levied based on number of adults in a household (with discounts and allowances for the disabled etc) rather than notional value of property. I may be missing something but I can’t see why council services cost more if someone lives in an expensive house, and property values are such a random way to assess ability to pay

We dont often agree but I agree 100% with this. CT is VERY poor value for those who of us who live alone and are childfree.

MaizieD

I know that google would tell me, but how would a local income tax work? Who would it be levied on?

I think that would run into the same problems that David pointed out above - registering, tracking, checking, avoidance.

Governments have struggled with this for years, it seems to me atm to make the bandings as fair as possible?

Growstuff David for me it us not about the rich getting a freebie, it's about helping people who are a few of pounds over being able to get PC.
The people who lose it are the ones who need it most, a single person living on their own, no PC, found a one of payment of £200 a godsend if they don't qualify for PC and rely solely on the new state pension,also they lose out on the council tax.

I know that google would tell me, but how would a local income tax work? Who would it be levied on?

Having seen the poll tax bring down Thatcher I doubt that Starmer wants to go down that road.

Local income tax would be the fairest in my eyes. I think the LibDems suggested it some years ago if I remember rightly?

I think I would prefer CT to be levied based on number of adults in a household (with discounts and allowances for the disabled etc) rather than notional value of property.

Thatcher tried that, didn't she? It's a 'poll tax' and it brought her down.

I don't think there is any way of collecting revenue for councils which would please everyone. The history of local government funding goes back centuries, but it was, I think, based originally on contributions from the richer inhabitants of a parish, or administrative unit, contributing to the upkeep of things like roads, and to parish relief for the poor. It has hugely widened in scope over the years, but the current system does have an element of the wealthiest contributing the most to maintain local services.

I seem to remember individual council tax was proposed, but it was dubbed a “Poll Tax” and many would not register to avoid it.
People can be very hard to keep track of, property is much easier.

Yes, when it was the Tories bribing pensioners with Christmas spending money people used to boast about how they didn’t need it and how they gave it to the poor, but now that Labour is getting it directly it to the poor the tune has changed. If those who said they gifted it were really doing so, what’s the difference?

As has been said a million times, the whole thing could certainly have been managed better, but removing a bonus based on age rather than need (which is true of many who got it) is not the grinch-like behaviour some like to pretend.

I think I would prefer CT to be levied based on number of adults in a household (with discounts and allowances for the disabled etc) rather than notional value of property. I may be missing something but I can’t see why council services cost more if someone lives in an expensive house, and property values are such a random way to assess ability to pay. Many young families with new mortgages will (as we did) have stretched themselves to pay for a house big enough for children, leaving much less disposable income than say, a couple living in a cheaper and smaller property, yet will be expected to pay far more for the same services. If all adults paid it would be much fairer, I think.

love0c

It will be very interesting to see how the 'socialists' feel at the end of this government.

Good Lord, *loveOc. Socialists absolutely loathe this government.

Elegran

love0c

It will be very interesting to see how the 'socialists' feel at the end of this government.

It can't be any worse than honourably traditional "conservatives" must have felt at the impact of the previous government.

It will depend on how successful they are getting the investment and developing the renewable industry, it’s a big ask, currently we have very little, just a factory making turbine blades for a Danish company.

David49

growstuff

rafichagran

Growstuff this is not personal, you say you don't mind paying more, thats up to you, others are struggling. It's not only about you but everyone who is struggling because the they are a few pounds over the threshold.

I am well aware it's not just about me. However, it's a fact that most of the people moaning have an awful lot more money than I do. It seems to me it's about wealthier people using poor people as an excuse because they don't want to pay more.

Of course I don't want to pay more for anything. However, I'm not being asked to. The expected council tax rise is in line with last year and what the Conservative government planned. It's an average of £2 a week. Anybody who thinks £2 a week will buy much food or heating is living in lalaland.

That’s pretty much how I see the WFA issue those that don’t need it complaining they’re loosing a freebie.

People on here used to query why they received the WFA and that they gave the money to charity.

Very true Elegran, the anger is still palpable. In the event that Labour make an equal mess of things as the Tories did, the Lib Dem’s would be the beneficiaries, because no socialist would ever vote Tory or Reform. It’s not the socialists either party need to worry about though, it’s the floating voters.

growstuff

rafichagran

Growstuff this is not personal, you say you don't mind paying more, thats up to you, others are struggling. It's not only about you but everyone who is struggling because the they are a few pounds over the threshold.

I am well aware it's not just about me. However, it's a fact that most of the people moaning have an awful lot more money than I do. It seems to me it's about wealthier people using poor people as an excuse because they don't want to pay more.

Of course I don't want to pay more for anything. However, I'm not being asked to. The expected council tax rise is in line with last year and what the Conservative government planned. It's an average of £2 a week. Anybody who thinks £2 a week will buy much food or heating is living in lalaland.

That’s pretty much how I see the WFA issue those that don’t need it complaining they’re loosing a freebie.

love0c

It will be very interesting to see how the 'socialists' feel at the end of this government.

It can't be any worse than honourably traditional "conservatives" must have felt at the impact of the previous government.

It will be very interesting to see how the 'socialists' feel at the end of this government.

rafichagran

Growstuff this is not personal, you say you don't mind paying more, thats up to you, others are struggling. It's not only about you but everyone who is struggling because the they are a few pounds over the threshold.

I am well aware it's not just about me. However, it's a fact that most of the people moaning have an awful lot more money than I do. It seems to me it's about wealthier people using poor people as an excuse because they don't want to pay more.

Of course I don't want to pay more for anything. However, I'm not being asked to. The expected council tax rise is in line with last year and what the Conservative government planned. It's an average of £2 a week. Anybody who thinks £2 a week will buy much food or heating is living in lalaland.

Starmer is center left, he realizes that we have to pay for the services we use, in addition he has introduces some idealogical policies that please his supporters.
Borrowing they have reserved for growth, particularly for renewable industries that seems to be a good policy to me.

It’s early days, I expected him to raise more taxes, he chose to increase employers NI to raise the bulk of the revenue perhaps he plans to restrict more benefits for those over a certain income.

Anyone who thinks Starmer is far left is talking a load of nonsense- wonder what they called Corbyn?

Growstuff this is not personal, you say you don't mind paying more, thats up to you, others are struggling. It's not only about you but everyone who is struggling because the they are a few pounds over the threshold.

You are completely wrong if you think that Starmer is 'extreme left', nanna8. But whatever he might be will be irrelevant to Trump.

Though what this has to do with council tax is a mystery...🤔

No - I’m talking about Scary Starmer extreme left v Trump extreme right and the consequences. It won’t be a love story, that’s for sure and I don’t think the UK economy will benefit - buckle up for a rough ride. Same applies here!