‘Police treat classroom jibes as hate incidents’.

I don't agree Doodledog . The calm and kind intervention of any nearby parent would demonstrate to the offending child that respectable people don't bully either with physical violence or psychological torture.

Moreover evil happens when decent people stay silent.

A 9 year old won't be criminalised due to their age.
Not officially no, but recording offences in a book, or involving the police is what I meant. Labelling is probably more accurate than criminalising.

When do you think the police should be involved? I don't know why we didn't involve the police when an attack on my daughter was potentially lethal and a teacher stood and watched. Thank God for the parent who intervened.
I guess it varies according to the severity of the situation. A nine year old with a knife should probably be reported, but a nine year old using unacceptable language is likely to be repeating what they’ve heard at home, so should be told why it’s not acceptable and given more information and wider vocabulary. If it persists then sanctions should be applied, but involving the police seems a step too far.

I'm sorry I didn't feel happy that attacking my child could be seen as a learning opportunity for the bullies.
I don’t think you should be sorry - we all defend our own, and I’m sure I would be murderous in your shoes. Without knowing what happened and at what age, however, it’s impossible to comment on specifics. I wasn’t say that learning opportunities should be created at the expense of others- I would have thought that was obvious. I was responding to the example of a four year old’s comments being recorded in a book, presumably to be used against them if they did it again. In that case, explaining why the language is unacceptable seems to me more proportionate.

Unfortunately I doubt bullying will ever be stopped, it will just go ‘underground’. There are many very subtle ways that bullies use - as do perpetrators of domestic violence. I would have thought more for social workers to deal with than the police if it is words only. I agree, bullies have almost always experienced bullying themselves. A horrible cycle.

I agree with The Worried Well that bullying must be stopped. The child who calls another a retard got the idea from the culture of bullying that prevails on certain media and has maybe infected the parents too. It is right that it be illegal and the presence of the police demonstrates that it is a serious matter .

Police should not be called into Primary schools to deal with bullying unless it involves threats of physical violence. I recall the police being involved only once when a difficult boy concealed a knife at school and threatened to use it on another child. His bag was searched in front of him, a kitchen knife was found, his father was called, and his response was that the Deputy Head had planted it. The community police officer arrived, and offered to escort the boy to the police station to have his fingerprints taken. The father retracted his accusation but continued to obstruct the school. The son was later arrested while attempting to break into a post office.

Part of the trouble when dealing with bullying is that both the accused and the accusers frequently have problems at home, often involving family conflicts, both perpetrators and victims sensing unhappiness in the other and a chance to take their unhappiness out on someone else.

lemsip

one of my grandaughters was put in the 'racist' book as a 4 yr old at school for calling her little friend 'chocolate face'. that was 15 yrs ago now.

I hope she learned her lesson. That was the sort of thing that started the bullying of my daughter and 3 years later ended with an incident where she could have died or been seriously hurt.

Doodledog

I don’t think that criminalising children is helpful. They are at school to learn - in fact childhood is all about learning, and mistakes should be something they are encouraged to learn from.

That is not to say that bullying should go unchecked. If schools can foster an ethos where supporting one another is rewarded (eg safe spaces, talking benches etc) and bullying is seen as unacceptable from an early age it is likely to be more effective than cracking down on it when it is reported.

As has been said though, too many adults try to browbeat others and often use very similar tactics to school bullies, such as isolating people, talking behind their backs, ridiculing them etc. It’s trickier to deal with it in the workplace but bullying is still a problem for many people.

A 9 year old won't be criminalised due to their age.

When do you think the police should be involved? I don't know why we didn't involve the police when an attack on my daughter was potentially lethal and a teacher stood and watched. Thank God for the parent who intervened.

I'm sorry I didn't feel happy that attacking my child could be seen as a learning opportunity for the bullies.

Cossy

Oreo

That’s such a waste of police time and shows that making such things ‘hate speech’ is OTT when all it needs is the teacher or headteacher to give the child a dressing down over it and say if he or she says it again then parents will be called.If that isn’t any use then a period of suspension. There’s no need for police at all.

The bigger issue here is the relationship between parents, the child and the school these days!

Have you any idea how many parents “go up the school” to berate teachers who have given little Jonny or Janet a “dressing down”

Calling another child “retard” is totally unacceptable and if our Police force were properly manned and funded we could see a return to School Community Police and police on the beat.

I’m all for much closer links between school and the police.

Calling another child “retard” is totally unacceptable and if our Police force were properly manned and funded we could see a return to School Community Police and police on the beat.

I’m all for much closer links between school and the police.

This was a 9 year old in a primary school. It need to be nipped in the bud promptly by the school but I agree with this:

I don’t think that criminalising children is helpful. They are at school to learn - in fact childhood is all about learning, and mistakes should be something they are encouraged to learn from.

Community police do not go into schools to act as law enforcement officers; they are there to foster good relationships and give talks warning children of the dangers that might face them, crime prevention, stop children becoming involved in county lines, drug dealing etc.

'I’ve never heard of a racist book. What was the point of that?'

well me neither Doodleog but back the the 'colour' thing was prominent in schools.

Perhaps this must be taken very seriously because of radicalisation working in more ways than the commonly accepted one. Perhaps also, a hard stance on hate speech at a young age prevents the commonly accepted form of radicalisation too.

That’s ridiculous. It’s the sort of thing that has to be dealt with as it would be hurtful to the child, and I’d wonder where the phrase had come from, and would want her to be told why personal comments about appearance are unkind. But four year olds are far too young to have things held against them like that, and are unlikely to be racist unless it is deeply ingrained at home (which I am not remotely suggesting is the case with your granddaughter, lemsip).

I’ve never heard of a racist book. What was the point of that?

one of my grandaughters was put in the 'racist' book as a 4 yr old at school for calling her little friend 'chocolate face'. that was 15 yrs ago now.

I don’t think that criminalising children is helpful. They are at school to learn - in fact childhood is all about learning, and mistakes should be something they are encouraged to learn from.

That is not to say that bullying should go unchecked. If schools can foster an ethos where supporting one another is rewarded (eg safe spaces, talking benches etc) and bullying is seen as unacceptable from an early age it is likely to be more effective than cracking down on it when it is reported.

As has been said though, too many adults try to browbeat others and often use very similar tactics to school bullies, such as isolating people, talking behind their backs, ridiculing them etc. It’s trickier to deal with it in the workplace but bullying is still a problem for many people.

Oreo

That’s such a waste of police time and shows that making such things ‘hate speech’ is OTT when all it needs is the teacher or headteacher to give the child a dressing down over it and say if he or she says it again then parents will be called.If that isn’t any use then a period of suspension. There’s no need for police at all.

The bigger issue here is the relationship between parents, the child and the school these days!

Have you any idea how many parents “go up the school” to berate teachers who have given little Jonny or Janet a “dressing down”

Calling another child “retard” is totally unacceptable and if our Police force were properly manned and funded we could see a return to School Community Police and police on the beat.

I’m all for much closer links between school and the police.

my mother had a lot of sayings ; do as you would be done by and treat others as you would want to be treated.
parents only seem to teach the words of 'please and thank-you'.

Greenfinch

The trouble with bullying is that now it is generally conducted online especially at secondary level and therefore possibly outside the jurisdiction of the school. However when my grandson was bullied online because of his autism his twin sister took a screenshot of the offensive words and took them to the Head of Year who was supportive and dealt with the issue immediately. But it did not stop the offender from finding all sorts of underhand ways to bully which continued off and on throughout the years until my grandson left to attend Sixth Form College. I don't think policing is the right answer though but I can't give any other suggestions. It is a sad fact of the society we live in and teachers can only do so much. The role of the family is paramount.

Good for her 👍🏻

It should be taught at a young age that not everyone is alike- I think these kids hear comments & insults from adults.
My science teacher would shout “rusty bun” across the classroom room, what chance did I stand from bullying from other kids, when they thought it ok that teacher was insulting my red hair- can laugh now but it was embarrassing at the time.

Some years back the police used to have one man per area to do community work and this would include talking to children in schools etc It is necessary to stop this kind of behaviour at a young age. It might seem a waste of time but surely if it prevents later violence it’s a big asset
I think if it was one person per small town trained to work with children in a more counselling and parental role it could set standards for later in life and give children the opportunity to talk to somebody in authority in a friendly manner surely things like child abuse or neglect could be noticed as well as behaviour and bearing in mind the childs behaviour is often a reflection of its home life

Kids are often scared to report bullying because if they do they really cop it from the bully and their mates. I think police involvement is ridiculous,though,unless it is really violent or weapons are involved. Obviously they haven got enough genuine police work to do.

I agree with others that the school should be dealing with bullying, and as an ex teacher, I know that all schools are required to have a bullying policy. If the policy is robust and followed through, it shouldn’t be necessary to involve the police. I certainly think that involvement of the police with a nine year old shouldn’t be necessary. If physical violence has occurred, then that is a crime and should be reported, but only in secondary age children.

I was bullied by a girl in my school for my red bob- only to see the girl (grown up) with a bright, red bob 🤔 now we are in our late fifties, she has grey hair & I still have my red bob- karma 😊

Perhaps parents are driven to involve the police following lack of action from the school.

Bullying is not a childhood thing. It happens frequently in the workplace and in pubs. In fact, a bigly bully just got elected to bully the USA.

The trouble with bullying is that now it is generally conducted online especially at secondary level and therefore possibly outside the jurisdiction of the school. However when my grandson was bullied online because of his autism his twin sister took a screenshot of the offensive words and took them to the Head of Year who was supportive and dealt with the issue immediately. But it did not stop the offender from finding all sorts of underhand ways to bully which continued off and on throughout the years until my grandson left to attend Sixth Form College. I don't think policing is the right answer though but I can't give any other suggestions. It is a sad fact of the society we live in and teachers can only do so much. The role of the family is paramount.

When my son was beaten up at school, the school wouldn't discipline that child because his parents were American and litigious. By the time the school came back with their decision, most of his wounds had healed enough not to be easily photographed. In those circumstances if it had happened again, the police would have been involved. Sadly, the child involved has obviously grown up with big problems and has a fixation about breaking into Royal Grounds.