Trump wanting us to ditch Europe.

Wyllow3

Sarnia

Democratic vote by the British people to leave the EU. Nothing to discuss.

At ease - I haven't read anyone here suggest a re joining, just good trade and security relationships.

Uhm, all on the EUs terms I would say. Starmer will roll over very easily and not argue at all.

And what would you do with your Reform friends Freya?

We have always known that 'cake and eat it' will never work. Actually, to some extent, the UK did have it - kept own currency and other exceptions- which no-one had. But chose to throw it all away for what?

Fleurpepper

And what would you do with your Reform friends Freya?

We have always known that 'cake and eat it' will never work. Actually, to some extent, the UK did have it - kept own currency and other exceptions- which no-one had. But chose to throw it all away for what?

How arrogant of you to assume anything about me.

Fleurpepper I thought the big Boris Johnson promise was that we would be free to make our own trade deals with? India? Australia? It sounded so plausible at the time….. although our trade deals don’t seem to be very stacked up by now so still waiting I guess.

They didn't work out, simply time to go back to favourable trade deals with nearest neighbours not those halfway round the world.

Easier said than done Wyllow3

Yes, very hard to do ronib, but I don't see other viable options

I don’t know what the rest of Europe feels about the UK post Brexit. I suspect they may not always be positive feelings, I don’t know. Starmer needs to tread a fine line and try to maintain relationships with the US as well as improve things with Europe. Hopefully it won’t be an either/ or situation because the country actually needs both. I have no faith in Starmer or Lammy but they are what is there so there is no choice. Hope they prove me mistaken, I don’t want the UK to go down the tubes.

I'll repeat this quote nanna as you can see it's a deliberate intention to break our ties with Europe under Trump plans for sheer political game playing, they are making it an either/or, and a "do as we tell you" threat ie break our ties with Europe not trade with both..

No way!

Independent News

A senior economic adviser to Donald Trump has warned the UK that it needs to ditch the “socialist” EU and embrace a trade deal with the US instead, or face tariffs

The intervention by Stephen Moore appears to be an attempt to force the hand of Sir Keir Starmer in the latest sign that the relationship with the incoming White House administration is going to be painful.

But the prime minister has been urged not to “take the threat on the chin” and to continue to pursue closer ties with the European Union, Britain’s largest export market."

My comments:

But this would not only cut us off from our European markets but also threaten our Security within Europe, as Trump seems likely to pull out of Nato and our security needs surely lie within Europe

Wyllow3

I'll repeat this quote nanna as you can see it's a deliberate intention to break our ties with Europe under Trump plans for sheer political game playing, they are making it an either/or, and a "do as we tell you" threat ie break our ties with Europe not trade with both..

No way!

Independent News

A senior economic adviser to Donald Trump has warned the UK that it needs to ditch the “socialist” EU and embrace a trade deal with the US instead, or face tariffs

The intervention by Stephen Moore appears to be an attempt to force the hand of Sir Keir Starmer in the latest sign that the relationship with the incoming White House administration is going to be painful.

But the prime minister has been urged not to “take the threat on the chin” and to continue to pursue closer ties with the European Union, Britain’s largest export market."

My comments:

But this would not only cut us off from our European markets but also threaten our Security within Europe, as Trump seems likely to pull out of Nato and our security needs surely lie within Europe

The popular expression that's used by cynics is, "America says jump, and we say how high?.

Corny, but it looks like it might be true.

However, maybe those who wanted us to be a sovereign nation - making our own decisions without being bullied or dictated to by the EU, don't mind as long as it's the USA doing the bullying and the dictating?

When you examine what is being said by this senior economic advisor, it's "do what we tell you, otherwise we'll make you suffer economically". All part of the 'America First' economic and political power game.

So much for sov-rin-tee then?

Just watch - as soon as Trump is officially installed in The White House, Sir Keir will be over there like a shot to receive his orders and lick Trumps boots.

Because that's what British PM's do best.

One of the main reasons we (or some of us) voted to leave the EU was because we do not want someone dictating to us. We must remain an independant country, in charge of our own affairs.
While I welcome the election of Trump, he is the American president, not ours.
Starmer is proving to be exactly what so many people feared....weak and indecisive. He is too easily influenced by others.

mum2three

One of the main reasons we (or some of us) voted to leave the EU was because we do not want someone dictating to us. We must remain an independant country, in charge of our own affairs.
While I welcome the election of Trump, he is the American president, not ours.
Starmer is proving to be exactly what so many people feared....weak and indecisive. He is too easily influenced by others.

Starmer is proving to be exactly what so many people feared....weak and indecisive. He is too easily influenced by others.

Well, he now is between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea - literally.

We do more trade with America than we do with 23 EU countries put together. But I guess Starmer feels more comfortable hanging out with losers. Like seeks like.

MayBee70

And this is a Bank of England governor appointed by a Conservative government. Mark Carney was and still is critical of Brexit and was firmly on the side of remaining in the EU. From what I’ve heard over the years Starmer has been trying to build bridges with the EU and I hope that continues. At last people are beginning to speak about the elephant in the room that is Brexit.

the elephant in the room 😂
I think you’re using the wrong idiom. In some quarters people haven't stopped talking about it.

LizzieDrip

Sarnia if the outcome of a democratic vote means ‘nothing to discuss’, why is there thread after thread on GN moaning about discussing the outcome of our recent democratic election?

Exactly. No matter how we voted Brexit was born and we have to accept that otherwise why have a referendum?

love0c

We do more trade with America than we do with 23 EU countries put together. But I guess Starmer feels more comfortable hanging out with losers. Like seeks like.

No we don’t, anywhere near. Here are the official government figures.
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book

Wyllow3

Sarnia

Democratic vote by the British people to leave the EU. Nothing to discuss.

At ease - I haven't read anyone here suggest a re joining, just good trade and security relationships.

That’s what we had before the Maastricht agreement was signed.
The vast majority of people who voted to leave were more or less happy with the relationship with the EU.
But that changed with Maastricht.

A lot of extreme comments here, US presidents come and go, it is in their interest to have a strong stable Europe, the UK “IS” part of that. There is no movement for the US to leave NATO, they need us, as much as we need them, what they don’t like is Europe not paying their share of defence, we are in the front line but dependant on US technology. The US wants to reduce its commitment to Europe so that it can concentrate on Pacific and Middle East problems.

The threat from Russia has been greatly overstated, they were very poorly prepared for the Ukraine war and are still playing catch up, NATO has far greater capability. Ukraine wanting to join NATO destabilized the status quo and pushed Russia closer to China and Iran, a seriously dangerous alliance in my opinion

As for the UK, make no mistake any changes to our relationship will be by EU rules, 27 nations are not going to change anything just to please the UK, there is no point bemoaning Brexit we made our bed however uncomfortable that is.

It’s true repeat lies often enough and they will be believed that has been repeated countless times over history, to manipulate the population. Hopefully Trump will end the Ukraine war, that will probably be the only favour he will do for Europe, if it drags on it could become very difficult.

I think you are making the mistake of thinking Trump is sane and rational, David.

The world did not end when he was President before despite the predictions, it won’t end now the US will rumble on. There are enough moderates in the Republican Party to make sensible decisions.
The voters elected him and they had no doubt about his policies, they will suffer or benefit from that.

Hey, why don’t they look at Australia? Trade more with us. We’re reliable and would never have any weirdos as our leaders because we are super conventional. Our wine is beautiful, so is our olive oil and so is our meat. After all the UK already runs most of our private health system ( BUPA ) and then there’s Specsavers.

We'll see, David😆

erm...ask our farmers?

Casdon

love0c

We do more trade with America than we do with 23 EU countries put together. But I guess Starmer feels more comfortable hanging out with losers. Like seeks like.

No we don’t, anywhere near. Here are the official government figures.
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book

When everyone reads those export/import figures (and I hope they do, because they explains exactly why Trump is making a clumsy attempt to replace the EU completely in Uk trade.) they should make sure that they don't just glance at the top figure in the list and assume what loveOc did.

The list is made up of individual countries and the total EU trade is down below them, in value and in % of UK exports or imports.

UK exports to the EU are worth £357.2 billion (41.3%)
UK exports to the US are worth £191.5 billion (22.1%)

UK imports from the EU are worth £465.9 billion (51.9%)
Uk imports from the US are worth £119.4 billion (13.3%)

Trump is making a clumsy attempt to get his hands on that £465,900,000. Starmer is perfectly well aware of these trade figures, and of Trump's motives and Casa Notra negotiating style. He is unlikely to roll over to get his tummy rubbed, but he is also aware of the need to keep Trump contributing to Nato and acting within the limits of his understanding and his anger management ability. I don't think he will yield to bluster and blackmail, but he will be tactful in his refusal.