Trump wanting us to ditch Europe.

It's part of the Labour Party Manifesto, Grantanow, to negotiate best tariff, customs, red tape etc. but it's not a quick fix. I do get frustrated when people make snap judgements about progress on this when it's clearly very complicated.

We took 4 years from the Brexit vote messing European partners around before finally "leaving"

and yet people criticise Starmer (as in wimp, weak) for not making significant changes in 6 months?

It will make a difference for British business to have better and more profitable access in Europe.

And yes, NATO has a complex time ahead.

"It will make a difference for British business to have better and more profitable access in Europe."

You can bet on that Wyllow! My son is a business man who, besides selling within this island, also exports to the continent of Europe, and he has actual evidence Brexit was and continues to be bad for his business.

Grantanow

Of course Brexit was a serious blunder fuelled by lies about sovereignty, money for the NHS, etc. But it's unlikely the EU would let us rejoin any time soon - they have other things to worry about and we would never get the advantageous terms renegotiated by Thatcher. So the best we can hope for is some agreements about equivalence to reduce red tape and inspections, etc., at the border. I hope Starmer has the backbone to push that through as a minimum. Military cooperation might be another area alongside NATO but our diminished strength undermines that.

EU membership is a generation away, if ever and the political situation cannot be predicted. There are many ways that the relationship can be improved, it must be clear by now that a special trade relationship with the US or anyone else is not going to happen.

David49

Grantanow

Of course Brexit was a serious blunder fuelled by lies about sovereignty, money for the NHS, etc. But it's unlikely the EU would let us rejoin any time soon - they have other things to worry about and we would never get the advantageous terms renegotiated by Thatcher. So the best we can hope for is some agreements about equivalence to reduce red tape and inspections, etc., at the border. I hope Starmer has the backbone to push that through as a minimum. Military cooperation might be another area alongside NATO but our diminished strength undermines that.

EU membership is a generation away, if ever and the political situation cannot be predicted. There are many ways that the relationship can be improved, it must be clear by now that a special trade relationship with the US or anyone else is not going to happen.

EU membership is a generation away, if ever and the political situation cannot be predicted.

I believe you're right. And the political climate would have to change enormously before we'd even be considered, we're not collectively in the 'mood' to be team-players at the moment - we're still in Great Britain Going It Alone mode.

There are many ways that the relationship can be improved, it must be clear by now that a special trade relationship with the US or anyone else is not going to happen.

I think the relationship can be improved, and should be, not just for the sake of business and the economy, but also for intel and security. But I imagine many red-blooded Eurosceptics, like Rees-Mogg and Truss (who appears to be operating from the Tufton Street manual), and other associated die-hards, will do their best to prevent it. They would quite happily see us isolated from "socialist" Europe and at the mercy of Trump's 'America-First'.

What does it have to do with him?

Aren't we still a separate nation state and didn't we vote for Brexit to get our 'sovereignty' back? Now it seems we can hand it to the US instead...?

There was never any lost sovereignty to get back.

Trade agreements and membership of international bodies, such as NATO all involve a small loss of 'sovereignty.

Despite our 'sovereignty' we are having to conform to EU regulations in order to trade with them (our largest trading partner) Our attempt as a separate quality mark fell flat as manufacturers still needed to conform to EU standards and use the CE mark for anything they sold into the EU and it just wasn't worth their while to have the two marks in operation at the same time.

The 'sovereignty thing was utter idiocy...

Absolutely- but despite all that we still left the EU.

Now we have the mastermind behind Brexit attempting to feather his own nest by thinking he can help organise trade deals with the US...

keepingquietbut we already have trade deals with the USA. In fact seems to me that the USA is our principal trading partner but I guess someone will tell me that I have misread the figures!!

The EU is ONE market, ronib. We don't have trade deals with each member state, we have a trade deal with the EU. Trade with the EU is greater than trade with the US.

Please stop being obtuse.

I am not being deliberately obtuse but since I have found countries eg Germany, France, Switzerland etc listed as individual entities with figures next to them for export and import with the Uk, I am confused.

Well if the US is our main trading partner and they are going to slap on increased tariffs we really are scuppered aren't we?

MaizieD is right- we trade with individual EU countries under the umbrella of the single market, which we left.

I'm sorry you're confused.

Can anyone explain why Starmer has negotiated an individual deal with Germany?
I feel we are scuppered whatever happens.

All things aside,though, I think there will always be some sort of reasonable relationship between the UK and the US, the UK being the ‘mother’ country and all. Just history. Europe ? Not so sure, some parts yes, some parts no.

ronib

Can anyone explain why Starmer has negotiated an individual deal with Germany?
I feel we are scuppered whatever happens.

What 'individual deal' is thatronib?

The EU members don't do individual deals. All trade deals are negotiated by 'the EU' and apply to all the member states. It's a Single Market.

I think that the US abandoned that 'Mother Country' stuff many years ago, nanna8. Probably when it achieved its independence...

Do Australians think of the UK as the'Mother Country'?

The Trinity House Agreement between Germany and the Uk. Defence and economic ties.

Yes, Trinity House Agreement is specific to Defence/Security and, financially, Related Defence industries

www.gov.uk/government/news/landmark-uk-germany-defence-agreement-to-strengthen-our-security-and-prosperity

and

"The deal will reflect the "breadth" of the two countries' bilateral relationship, it says, but makes clear it will need to be "in full accordance with Germany’s membership of the EU, and the UK’s relationship with the EU".

"The treaty, though, will not mean "reversing Brexit" or re-entering the single market, the PM said"

(BBC details of it 28th Aug)

There has been defence integration for many years, not just Germany, France and Italy as well, aerospace as well, the wings for Airbus aircraft are built in the north west. Europe and UK could do much more to increase cooperation and I’m sure they will.

It’s us that is at a disadvantage because so many of our industries have either been closed down or sold off to foreigners.

ronib

I am not being deliberately obtuse but since I have found countries eg Germany, France, Switzerland etc listed as individual entities with figures next to them for export and import with the Uk, I am confused.

Then you didn't read to the bottom of those lists of import and export partners. Trade deals are with the EU bloc, not individually with Germany, France etc.

*UK exports to the EU are worth £357.2 billion (41.3%)
UK exports to the US are worth £191.5 billion (22.1%)*

*UK imports from the EU are worth £465.9 billion (51.9%)
Uk imports from the US are worth £119.4 billion (13.3%)*

ronib

Can anyone explain why Starmer has negotiated an individual deal with Germany?
I feel we are scuppered whatever happens.

He hasn't. These are figures for the trade with each COUNTRY but the trade agreement is with the EU AS A BLOC All the countries within it have the same tariffs. There is no separate trade deal with Germany.

Had you forgotten that Germany is a member of the EU?

keepingquiet

Well if the US is our main trading partner and they are going to slap on increased tariffs we really are scuppered aren't we?

MaizieD is right- we trade with individual EU countries under the umbrella of the single market, which we left.

I'm sorry you're confused.

Not you too, keepingquiet We export and import far more with the EU than we do with the USA.

Elegran The Trinity House Agreement between Germany and the UK includes jobs for 400 munitions workers in the North of England to manufacture gun barrels using Sheffield steel.

(I hate to think about net zero in this context but that’s a separate issue).

Ps steel production is highly polluting.

ronib

Ps steel production is highly polluting.

Yes steel production is polluting but if we want Tanks and other armoured vehicles we need steel, Germany is building them for us we only make the gun barrel.

So all we have done is export the pollution to Germany, in the same way we export all the other pollution on other stuff to China, Korea and many other places.

ronib

The Trinity House Agreement between Germany and the Uk. Defence and economic ties.

ronib
It’s obvious that you have a problem with the word trade
The agreement with Germany has nothing to do with trade
as defined by the meaning. The action of selling and buying goods and services
Simples 🤷‍♀️