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The Farmers Fight

(793 Posts)
Sarnia Mon 18-Nov-24 08:46:41

Infuriated farmers will be protesting against Labour's 'Tractor Tax' opposite Downing Street tomorrow. They are being asked not to bring farm machinery but I hope they clutter up Whitehall with every tractor and combine harvester they can lay their hands on. Reeves claims 'only' 20% of farms will be affected by her latest smash and grab raid but economists say it is nearer 70%. Has it not figured in her brain that if farmers, who already struggle to make ends meet, chuck in the towel, there will be a serious food shortage?

GrannyGravy13 Thu 21-Nov-24 16:25:49

I am amazed that posters are unperturbed by thought of more agricultural land being hoovered up by large investment companies, many from overseas, at a time when we should be looking to ensure as much as our food supply is within these shores.

We should not be selling off farmland for it then to be sold for housing, use brownfield sites We know why these sites are unfavourable, it costs to clear them up!

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 16:21:46

MaizieD

What do they do with it then, Allira?

They buy up London property and leave it empty.

The Government wants more housing to be built and will give the green light for change of use; the Green Belt here has disappeared and is disappearing. More houses will soon be built on what are fields of sheep at the moment.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 21-Nov-24 16:21:41

MaizieD

What do they do with it then, Allira?

I wouldn’t trust them to farm and be guardians of the countryside.

How many large properties purchased by foreign investors/corporations for investment remain empty in London. I recall constant complaints and calls for these to be compulsory taken into public ownership on GN threads many a time.

MaizieD Thu 21-Nov-24 16:21:25

They're not going to leave a source of income lying idle, are they, escaped?

Houses are a different matter.

escaped Thu 21-Nov-24 16:18:45

If London is anything to go buy, they don't do anything. They buy, they invest, they just own.

MaizieD Thu 21-Nov-24 16:14:25

What do they do with it then, Allira?

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 16:11:30

MaizieD

escaped

So, if these wealthy farmers decide to sell up, and the next generation doesn't want to take over, what happens if even wealthier "foreigners" come along to buy up the land, not for farming but fir investment? We've seen similar happen in London with rich Indians, Russians, Qataris, Chinese etc. They don't care if they are heavily taxed by the government, and they certainly don’t care about the countryside in terms of agriculture. They'll be jumping for joy. Be careful what you wish for.

The land will still be used mainly for farming, it will just be farmed by tenants. They will be getting an income from their 'investment' in the form of rentals, too.

What else would all those foreign investors' do with it?

Not necessarily.

MaizieD Thu 21-Nov-24 16:09:42

escaped

So, if these wealthy farmers decide to sell up, and the next generation doesn't want to take over, what happens if even wealthier "foreigners" come along to buy up the land, not for farming but fir investment? We've seen similar happen in London with rich Indians, Russians, Qataris, Chinese etc. They don't care if they are heavily taxed by the government, and they certainly don’t care about the countryside in terms of agriculture. They'll be jumping for joy. Be careful what you wish for.

The land will still be used mainly for farming, it will just be farmed by tenants. They will be getting an income from their 'investment' in the form of rentals, too.

What else would all those foreign investors' do with it?

escaped Thu 21-Nov-24 16:00:09

So, if these wealthy farmers decide to sell up, and the next generation doesn't want to take over, what happens if even wealthier "foreigners" come along to buy up the land, not for farming but fir investment? We've seen similar happen in London with rich Indians, Russians, Qataris, Chinese etc. They don't care if they are heavily taxed by the government, and they certainly don’t care about the countryside in terms of agriculture. They'll be jumping for joy. Be careful what you wish for.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:58:16

GrannyGravy13

For once I find myself agreeing with a Lib Dem MP.

Ed Davey shared the stage with Jeremy Clarkson at the march this week.

That was in reply to Allira

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 15:58:04

foxie48

Whoops, I didn't mean to quote Silver lining!

😁
I did wonder!

GrannyGravy13 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:57:38

For once I find myself agreeing with a Lib Dem MP.

Ed Davey shared the stage with Jeremy Clarkson at the march this week.

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 15:57:17

foxie48

silverlining48

Our farms only produce 60% of our food and have to import 40%. The majority of which is vegetables.
Why on earth are we not self sufficient in vegetables?

Yes, Maybee exactly so!

A little investigation will tell you why.

silverlining48 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:56:29

I did wonder Foxie smile

foxie48 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:55:18

Whoops, I didn't mean to quote Silver lining!

foxie48 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:54:23

silverlining48

Our farms only produce 60% of our food and have to import 40%. The majority of which is vegetables.
Why on earth are we not self sufficient in vegetables?

Yes, Maybee exactly so!

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 15:48:41

Here are the views of the Liberal Democrats on this:

www.libdems.org.uk/news/article/the-family-farm-tax-explained

But the Family Farm Tax is only expected to raise around £115 million a year – less than 0.01% of government spending and less than 0.3% of all the tax rises announced by Rachel Reeves in this Budget.

The worrying aspect of this tax is that, if farming families are liable to pay it and are only just scraping a profit from the farm, enough to live on, they will be forced to sell to these huge landowners and to the private equity firms which will want to increase their holdings.

Not all of these will be intent on producing food, on sustainability or the environment; not all will be like Sir James Dyson who is concerned about these matters.
They will find ways of evading paying any tax, including income tax, so it will be a self-defeating move.

Some will just stop producing food altogether as they may not be interested in farming - what then?
Where will our food come from?

We should be increasing the percentage of food we produce in the UK, not putting it at risk.

LizzieDrip Thu 21-Nov-24 15:46:19

MayBee🙏

Anniebach Thu 21-Nov-24 15:42:08

Thank you MayBee .

silverlining48 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:24:35

Thanks Maybe. Interesting reading.

sandelf Thu 21-Nov-24 15:16:23

Where were they when I paid IHT on Dad's bungalow and savings (was a teacher who lived cheap all his life)? They were happy, exempt and savvy!! Even now hardly any will pay, those who do will pay at half rate AND get 10 years to do it - I had to pay Before probate could be given.

MayBee70 Thu 21-Nov-24 15:03:22

'Through the hoo-ha over farmer’s inheritance tax (IHT), here is what you need to know…
“A third of all farmland in the UK is farmed by tenant farmers like my friend (and everybody he knows around here), who'll be completely unaffected by the IHT changes.
“So who will be affected by the IHT changes? From April 2026, taxes will apply to agricultural assets over £1 million (or up to £3 million in certain circumstances). Here's an explainer:
lordslibrary.parliament.uk/budget-2024.../
“Three things are worth noting: Firstly, any transfer of assets more than seven years before death is outside the scope of IHT. Secondly, the tax isn't a one-off sum - it's payable over a 10 year period, interest free.
“And this third point is very significant: we have evidence the rich are deliberately investing their money in land to avoid paying IHT. Jeremy Clarkson himself admitted that was why he bought so much land in an interview with the Times back in 2021.
“How big a problem is this? Well, almost half of all farms have less than 20 hectares of land. Incredibly, though, the average UK farm is 82 hectares - a staggeringly high sum that indicates how much land is owned by a minority.
“To give a sense of comparison? Jeremy Clarkson purchased a whopping 400 hectares (20 times the average farm size) back in 2008. So whatever you do, don't think he's the average farmer; he really isn't.
“Want to get a sense of how things are getting worse? According to property consultants Strutt & Parker, non-farmers were responsible for less than a third of farmland purchases in 2010... but this had risen to 56% by last year.
“In the last year alone, 400,000 hectares of agricultural land have been taken out of use for farming, as the wealthiest purchase land. Doing so allows them to avoid IHT.
“Traditionally, IHT hasn't been applied to farmland to avoid the breakup of family farms. Now, though, that's working against the country; the wealthy are purchasing vast tracts of land that avoids paying IHT.
“You know what happens in that scenario? The family farms that we're talking about trying to protect... are gone. If you want to talk about food security, the reality is that things are getting worse.
“Looking at this, there seems a strong case for IHT reform. The current situation is both unsustainable and deeply problematic, leading to an outcome we desperately want to avoid - where the wealthy own almost all the land and family farms are dying.
“This, of course, is NOT the discussion that's happening in the media. Why not? Well, partly because a lot of famous, wealthy, and vocal people WILL be affected by the change to IHT (Jeremy Clarkson, Lloyd Webber, etc).
“Ten landowners - just ten! - own one sixth of Dorset. They include Jonathan Harmsworth... whose family own the Daily Mail. Are alarm bells beginning to ring over the way this debate's being framed?
We have a romanticized vision of how country life works. The problem is the mental image most people have of farming... is out of date'.
From an article I've just read on facebook. Apologies for not having the source to hand [I'll try to find it] but I would imagine the figures are correct.

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 14:52:23

It stops them sticking together (well, mostly), GrannyGravy, then they are ready to throw into a roasting tin!

GrannyGravy13 Thu 21-Nov-24 14:41:08

Allira

^I parboil my parsnips^
Sorry - forgot that bit! I steam them then freeze with some oil.

Next time I will try adding some oil 👍

Allira Thu 21-Nov-24 14:38:25

I parboil my parsnips
Sorry - forgot that bit! I steam them then freeze with some oil.