The Farmers Fight

I agree Sarnia.

Totally agree Sarnia

It is always good to remember NO FARMERS, NO FOOD

What I think will happen is that farmers will reduce production, by growing crops every other year thereby reducing the cost of chemicals and fertilizers. Rents will fall less machinery and labour will be needed, maybe that’s what the government want, as long as the replacement food can be imported there won’t be a shortage.

Traceability, food miles and welfare standards go out of the window.

GrannyGravy13

Totally agree Sarnia

It is always good to remember *NO FARMERS, NO FOOD*

NO FARMERS, NO FOOD

Absolutely agree Sarnia

So shortsighted.

The other problem she is creating is the impact the increased Employers' NI is going to have on hospices.
They are frightened they will have to cut the services they offer to the terminally ill and to children in need of hospice care who may end up in hospital in future.

Does she think things through properly? 😡

One farmer I know says Labour won’t get in next time so he only has to live 4 years. The Government are alienating older people, hospitality businesses and farmers amongst others. I read the police will arrest farmers driving tractors into London tomorrow. Bit harder than investigating hate crimes.

With all Milliband’s pylons and solar farms good farmland isn’t producing food. We need more farmers not less.

I read the police will arrest farmers driving tractors into London tomorrow.

On what grounds?

Idk Allira. Obstruction? inciting public disorder. They can find something - when they want to and on instructions from above.

Allira

GrannyGravy13

Totally agree Sarnia

It is always good to remember *NO FARMERS, NO FOOD*

NO FARMERS, NO FOOD

Absolutely agree Sarnia

So shortsighted.

The other problem she is creating is the impact the increased Employers' NI is going to have on hospices.
They are frightened they will have to cut the services they offer to the terminally ill and to children in need of hospice care who may end up in hospital in future.

Does she think things through properly? 😡

GrannyGravy13. I agree with you. I wonder if she is so keen to come across as a forceful Chancellor who gets things done that she makes important decisions without consulting specialists in that particular field or looking at the bigger picture for those affected by it.

What I think will happen is that farmers will reduce production, by growing crops every other year thereby reducing the cost of chemicals and fertilizers.

I'm trying to work out the logic behind this. Are you saying that farmers can earn enough in one year to support them through a non earning year? That rather contradicts the narrative of farmers barely able to subsist on what they earn over a year.

Are farmers working at a loss or are they not?

Of course, that would only apply to arable, wouldn't it. They couldn't 'rest' livestock for a year...

Good for them! I hope they deposit tons of manure on the doorstep of Downing Street.

I'm not knowledgeable on farming, but I've lived enough years in rural France and Devon to understand somewhat. Looking at it from the human angle, farming has always held a place of importance in our national consciousness. I hate to see traditions eroded which will inevitably bring numerous problems to an already suffering industry. Not just financially in terms of livelihoods, but emotionally too. We know suicide in the agricultural sector has already grown in recent years. Does the government really want to add more stresses and pressure to the lives of these hardworking people?

They're allowed to be driven on public roads; it wouldn't take much effort to be causing an obstruction.

We often meet a tractor or two round here, even in the countryside there is often a queue of traffic behind it waiting patiently to overtake.

25Avalon

Idk Allira. Obstruction? inciting public disorder. They can find something - when they want to and on instructions from above.

Maybe they will use the softly, softly approach shown to Just Stop Oil protesters etc when clogging up the roads.

but I've lived enough years in rural France

They know how to block a road or two in France with tractors 😀

David49

What I think will happen is that farmers will reduce production, by growing crops every other year thereby reducing the cost of chemicals and fertilizers. Rents will fall less machinery and labour will be needed, maybe that’s what the government want, as long as the replacement food can be imported there won’t be a shortage.

Traceability, food miles and welfare standards go out of the window.

This doesn’t make sense to me. How would farmers survive financially and what about mixed farming?

Allira

^I read the police will arrest farmers driving tractors into London tomorrow.^

On what grounds?

If they do start arresting farmers for a peaceful protest then it is definitely two tier policing.

Farmers are cash poor and asset rich. Most of their wealth is tied up in the actual farm and buildings, so a 20% inheritance tax will force them to sell the farm rather than for family to continue farming. Leaving land fallow and growing no crops will leave farmers without an income so they would not be able to do it.

Even if we have a change of government in the next few years, I doubt the farmers tax will be rescinded, its such a good money spinner. Small farms will disappear as sons won't be able to take on the family farms.
However, they now intend to build houses on greenfield sites so there soon won't be enough land left to grow food - you can't plough and sow on the mountain sides can you?
I hope the farmers bring their old smelly manure spreaders without cleaning them and drop mud and muck all over Whitehall.
History should tell them, if they look back at the start of WW2 when we almost ran out of food because we imported so much of it.

MaizieD

^What I think will happen is that farmers will reduce production, by growing crops every other year thereby reducing the cost of chemicals and fertilizers.^

I'm trying to work out the logic behind this. Are you saying that farmers can earn enough in one year to support them through a non earning year? That rather contradicts the narrative of farmers barely able to subsist on what they earn over a year.

Are farmers working at a loss or are they not?

Of course, that would only apply to arable, wouldn't it. They couldn't 'rest' livestock for a year...

The profit margin on many crops is very low, in many cases there are crop failures because crop protection chemicals are so restricted and expensive.

By growing alternate years fertilizer can be reduced and there is less disease to reduce yield, it has happened before prices were very low, fields were fallowed because it was not economic to grow a crop.

Yes David49 but not the whole farm ceasing to grow food, maybe just a couple of fields left fallow.

By growing alternate years fertilizer can be reduced and there is less disease to reduce yield, it has happened before prices were very low, fields were fallowed because it was not economic to grow a crop.

Farmers were paid for ‘set aside’ so their income wasn’t reduced. This was ended by the EU in 2008.

Inheritance tax will still apply to organic growers who don’t use chemicals. What about them?

25Avalon

Farmers are cash poor and asset rich. Most of their wealth is tied up in the actual farm and buildings, so a 20% inheritance tax will force them to sell the farm rather than for family to continue farming. Leaving land fallow and growing no crops will leave farmers without an income so they would not be able to do it.

No, by growing half the quantity they can cut costs reduce labour and have an easier life, many now employ contractors to do some or all of the work so they will be doing less.

Farmers have very low living costs, the average age is well over 60, most of the younger generation only help out a busy times so they will do more outside the farm, the wife almost always has other work.

Its the food production side of the farm that is very unprofitable

David49

MaizieD

What I think will happen is that farmers will reduce production, by growing crops every other year thereby reducing the cost of chemicals and fertilizers.

I'm trying to work out the logic behind this. Are you saying that farmers can earn enough in one year to support them through a non earning year? That rather contradicts the narrative of farmers barely able to subsist on what they earn over a year.

Are farmers working at a loss or are they not?

Of course, that would only apply to arable, wouldn't it. They couldn't 'rest' livestock for a year...

The profit margin on many crops is very low, in many cases there are crop failures because crop protection chemicals are so restricted and expensive.

By growing alternate years fertilizer can be reduced and there is less disease to reduce yield, it has happened before prices were very low, fields were fallowed because it was not economic to grow a crop.

Fine, David, but what did the farmers live on?

The root of all this is the complex mechanism we call 'the economy'.

While it continues to be run to engender growing inequality there will be a demand for cheap food because actually overtly starving the poor isn't good optics, but paying them enough to be able to afford food priced to take account of farmers' costs of production is not permitted in our 'wealthy takes the lion's share' economic system.

Until we come to our senses and understand, and call for, a better way of organising our economy the non wealthy in a huge variety of occupations are going to suffer.

I find this whole thing a bit puzzling to be honest.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

We seem to have turned the tables here.

Striking, when doctors do it it's bad- but when farmers threaten to do it that's good?

I don't know much about inheritance tax because I won't ever have to pay it, no one I know has paid it, and my children won't have to pay it either.

Isn't this tax only paid when someone actually dies? It isn't taken from them at source on a regular basis as was the income tax I paid all my fifty years of working life, or is it? Would someone explain when these farmers will have to pay this tax?

I understand the farmers will have to hold over £3 million worth of assets? I find it difficult to feel sorry for someone with that much wealth to be honest.

I heard a farmer recently comparing themselves to the miners, which as someone whose family had been mining for over six generations, was quite frankly insulting. I think if you added up the total wealth my family made from mining for hundreds of years it wouldn't come near £3 million.

Of course we need the food, of course farmers work hard and deserve recognition- but some can't see the problems they face are no more than a little of a consequence of Brexit?

Project Fear has come home to roost and those who said we just had to face a little hardship are now having to deal with that 'hardship'.

Of course not all farmers voted for Brexit- they weren't listened to and now they are havng to deal with the reality like the rest of us.

David49

25Avalon

Farmers are cash poor and asset rich. Most of their wealth is tied up in the actual farm and buildings, so a 20% inheritance tax will force them to sell the farm rather than for family to continue farming. Leaving land fallow and growing no crops will leave farmers without an income so they would not be able to do it.

No, by growing half the quantity they can cut costs reduce labour and have an easier life, many now employ contractors to do some or all of the work so they will be doing less.

Farmers have very low living costs, the average age is well over 60, most of the younger generation only help out a busy times so they will do more outside the farm, the wife almost always has other work.

Its the food production side of the farm that is very unprofitable

You are painting a picture of farming that is contradicting the 'family farm' narrative that is driving the outcry against the IHT initiative..