The Farmers Fight

I think the majority of farmers are being hoodwinked by the celebrity 'farmers'. Clarkson quite openly said he was buying land to avoid IHT. He is a hobby farmer at best. Dyson and his ilk don't farm their land, so it is not producing any food. The top ten land owners are dukes, not farmers. I have a great deal of sympathy for farmers who have been dealt badly by big supermarkets and who work very long hours at a hard and isolating job. Clarkson and Farage aren't fit to lick their wellies.

I suppose the powers that be could have foreseen that Tata was on borrowed time and attempted to put other employment opportunities in place.

Yes Allira what it does make me think re food, (bearing in mind all the discussions posted above re only larger farm units often being viable nowadays because of pressure from supermarkets/prices forced down, and the heavy imports of food we have)

That we need proper food policy instead of it just carrying on in the current pattern.

Re Tata steel in S Wales: the decision to close down the two old furnaces in January 2024 was made a long time ago, because it had planned to open the new eco blast furnace (ie "electric arc furnaces" instead.
It was rushed in the end. The old furnaces should not have been closed until the new one was in commission.

Even then, redundancies were inevitable.

Coal, steel, other industries will come and go over centuries but food (and water) is essential to all life on earth.

Wyllow3 it does seem rather lapse by all concerned not to have covered supply of electricity in a due diligence survey.

Re Tata steel in S Wales: the decision to close down the two old furnaces in January 2024 was made a long time ago, because it had planned to open the new eco blast furnace (ie "electric arc furnaces" instead.

Unfortunately those planners for the eco blast furnace had not in their planning calculated whether our National Grid could supply enough power for their running.

It does not, and Tata steel could not predict whether it could.

*This was all done before the current government, including of course the closing of the old furnaces Jan 2024 as above which could have been kept going

had someone actually asked the question about the national grid.

NotSpaghetti

Allira I love this "spreadsheet of views" idea!

I can hardly keep up with names, let alone who said what, NotSpaghetti!

Well, without re reading everything I’ve read today I’m sure that someone accused the government of being weak and just caving into the health workers demands for a pay increase.

I just remember what people say, particularly when it’s something interesting or outrageous, I would think most people do, because there are many posters common on thread covering similar topics.

Allira I love this "spreadsheet of views" idea!

Why is being supportive of one section of the U.K. who produce upwards of 54% of our food make posters assume that I do not support other sectors?

Because it is a simplistic and unfounded assumption, GrannyGravy.

Assumptions do not make a truth.

Why is being supportive of one section of the U.K. who produce upwards of 54% of our food make posters assume that I do not support other sectors?

For what it’s worth I think closing Port Talbot before the new eco blast furnace is up and running foolhardy. All this has done is increase our carbon footprint and line the pockets of other countries, along with job losses.

If I remember correctly the current Labour Government have vetoed any new mines along with drilling for gas and oil in order to reach net zero. Again we shall be importing these resources adding to our carbon footprint not decreasing it in the short term along with job losses.

The Doctors needed a pay rise, but they are not gods, they are human like the rest of us and chose their profession.

(My neighbours one side are NHS nurse and high management, we clapped the first week of lockdown and then stopped as their house was party central, dope smoking in the garden so much so we had to keep our GSs bedroom window closed during hot nights, BBQ’s with folks who definitely did not live there, I could go on but you get the picture)

There are some strange double standards going on here

Unless posters keep spreadsheets of who said what how can they possibly know?

It was some people the other day.
Are some people the same ones as many of the people?

Just curious.

MayBee70

Seems to me that people are very vocal in their support of the farmers. And yet many of the people who clapped for NHS workers during the pandemic are complaining about the fact that the Labour government have given them a much needed pay increase. There are some strange double standards going on here.

Are these the same many of the people?

Or different many of the people?

Do posters keep a tally of who said what so they can compare what they said in different situations or is it an unfounded generalisation?

It’s because we rely on farmers to provide our food.

I didn’t complain about doctors being given a much deserved rise. It was years overdue.

Well said maybee
Miners, steelworkers and wrecked communities

Seems to me that people are very vocal in their support of the farmers. And yet many of the people who clapped for NHS workers during the pandemic are complaining about the fact that the Labour government have given them a much needed pay increase. There are some strange double standards going on here.

Farmers were thinking of others whilst protesting to save their livelihoods.

David49

The sale or transfer of property gets CGT applied, so unless it’s your private residence, transfer of land to a company would be taxed, then taxed again for IHT, a similar taxation regime applies to companies and overseas investors.

Gift holdover relief can be applied so any CGT is withheld until the farm is sold by the son. So yes, a farmer can gift a farm to a son or daughter and not pay CGT.

The sale or transfer of property gets CGT applied, so unless it’s your private residence, transfer of land to a company would be taxed, then taxed again for IHT, a similar taxation regime applies to companies and overseas investors.

GrannyGravy13

foxie48 the big landowners like universities, Church of England, conglomerates etc., will not pay the new IT.

I am pondering here, but if farmers were to register as limited companies (assuming they qualify) then the farms could be handed down IT if their children/heirs were share holders for at least two years before death?

That doesn’t work GG because someone has to own the shares, they can of course be gifted but the same rules apply, it all gets very complicated and messy.

Have they even thought where our food will come from? Fly it in from Europe or America maybe? You don't upset the farmers, who work horrendously long hours for very little return. Put the lot if them on a farm for a week, they would be crying like babies for their jobs, warm offices, cars, expenses etc.
I am not a farmer, its too hard, but i know some that do and I admire them more than any politician

GrannyGravy13

Don’t worry about our cheese Fleurpepper a quick walk round Borough Market shows how many varieties of British cheese and how delicious they are.

No need for foreign imports.

I am not sure you actually read my post. I am a huge fan and ambassador for British cheeses, love Borough Market and Neal's Yard, and so many amazing British cheese shops all over.

I am worried because cheese makers need to export some of their products, and it is currently very complicated and expensive, and is affecting farmers and producers.

Alira, yes our children were totally not interested in taking our professions- for the same reasons. Seeing their dad working such full days, and regular nights and weekends on top - put them off medicine forever. And same for me, in a different way, teaching in state city secondary schools.

But even more so with farming- for so many reasons. IHT not being a massive factor.

GrannyGravy13

foxie48 the big landowners like universities, Church of England, conglomerates etc., will not pay the new IT.

I am pondering here, but if farmers were to register as limited companies (assuming they qualify) then the farms could be handed down IT if their children/heirs were share holders for at least two years before death?

I'm not an accountant but I'm sure the bigger farms are run like that with family members being shareholders and profits being distributed a dividends. Yes, there's a two year rule, not entirely sure how it works but it can certainly enable people to pass on wealth without paying IHT.

Casdon

Allira

Also a fact of life that youngsters from farming families choose not to take over the farm, and want to have a very different life- and not just in the UK. I have several farms around me, on both sides of the border. Only one has a son who is interested in taking over.

I do understand that, Fleurpepper

Children can see how hard their parents work, how stressful the life can be and to be so under-appreciated, as evidenced on this thread for a start, is enough to put any young person off perpetuating the lifestyle. ☹

For most of those I know, it’s the isolation of the job that puts them off more than anything else. Most farms only have hired help at their busiest times, and young people don’t want to live in remote areas not seeing people their own age all summer because they are working until it’s dark. One of my son’s mates is a farmer, and he isn’t available for anything social from May to September, which is really hard when you’re in your twenties.

Yes, that's a very good point too, Casdon.

I used to go to Young Farmers' Dances when I was young but knew I never wanted to marry one.