The Farmers Fight

He didn’t loved for an hour he lied for an hour

My iPad has a mind of its own 🤷‍♀️

point.
Add comment | Report | Private message | Quote Allira Wed 20-Nov-24 14:06:23
Rosie51
Jeanathome
It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft

Being a bus driver is relentless hard graft. But they don't have Farage in his Barbour or the cheery camaraderie of their friends.
A bus driver is guaranteed their wage for set hours. A farmer has no such guarantee and doesn't usually have a set clocking off time, especially those that farm animals. Driving a bus demands lengthy mental concentration but I'd dispute it's hard graft in the normal meaning of hard physical labour.
A bus driver will still get his wage whatever the weather.

One bad year, floods, storms, etc resulting in crop failure and that year's income has gone.

Why do farmers choose to stay farming when the life is so
allegedly harm. ?

Colin Rayner a farmer had this to say about the PM

Keir Starmer came and told farmers at the NFU conference that we would not have any tax rises

He sat in the hall in front of 3,000 NFU members and loved for an hour

Keir Starmer is an incompetent, heartless, corrupt, compulsive liar. The man is not fit for office

I think the frustrations of the smaller farmers that has come out in the last days over IT is about far, far more than IT

Economies of scale have meant that small farmers unless they diversify and specialise and have good marketing skills - the "local food, farmers market, premium price Waitrose type" sales.

.....cannot compete with the larger units which used to be broken down into small farms, varying from say 5-8 small farms and sometimes much, much more.

So there has been a long term decline in profitability of most UK food production

Prices have been forced down by the grip of competition of major supermarkets to pay less and less for food. Not just costs, either, most supermarkets prefer to buy from big producers not smaller farmers - it's cheaper and easier to deal with big units.

At the same time, cheap food from abroad - and the public expecting a wider range of food than ever before all the year round - keeps UK farm profitability very low.

Yet there are many people who cant afford the shop prices needed to keep small farms operating the way they used to.

I can't talk about the effect that buying up of land as investment for tax purposes has on all this, I don't understand the economics of it, in terms of small farmers.

Except to say, unless there is some kind of major intervention in terms of UK food policy, (and I cant imagine "what") -

the supermarkets will continue to force prices to stay low and to deal mainly with very large units, and we continue to import cheap food and encourage year round access, the pressure on small farms will only increase and there will be more selling up for bigger units and be a management/worker structure.

Grantanow

The government's policy on IHT for farmers (which offers far better terms than IHT for anyone else above threshold) is aimed at killing IHT tax reduction by wealthy individuals buying agricultural land to form part of their estate. Inevitably there has to be a cut off point for small farmers and maybe it has been set too low but wherever it is set there will be protests from those on the wrong side of it. I think some of the protest is underpinned by the wealthy seeking to reverse the whole policy.

I think all those farmers gathered yesterday were not members of that wealthy elite.

Posters will say , Ah, but Clarkson was there.
Yes, he was and he speaks up for ordinary farmers and the problems they have to face from bureaucracy and governments.

Rosie51

Jeanathome

It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft

Being a bus driver is relentless hard graft. But they don't have Farage in his Barbour or the cheery camaraderie of their friends.

A bus driver is guaranteed their wage for set hours. A farmer has no such guarantee and doesn't usually have a set clocking off time, especially those that farm animals. Driving a bus demands lengthy mental concentration but I'd dispute it's hard graft in the normal meaning of hard physical labour.

A bus driver will still get his wage whatever the weather.

One bad year, floods, storms, etc resulting in crop failure and that year's income has gone.

Inevitably there has to be a cut off point for small farmers and maybe it has been set too low

This is a valid point which can also apply to the withdrawal of the WFA.

More research should go into those most affected by a poorly thought out cut off point.

The government's policy on IHT for farmers (which offers far better terms than IHT for anyone else above threshold) is aimed at killing IHT tax reduction by wealthy individuals buying agricultural land to form part of their estate. Inevitably there has to be a cut off point for small farmers and maybe it has been set too low but wherever it is set there will be protests from those on the wrong side of it. I think some of the protest is underpinned by the wealthy seeking to reverse the whole policy.

Jeanathome

*It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft*

Being a bus driver is relentless hard graft. But they don't have Farage in his Barbour or the cheery camaraderie of their friends.

A bus driver is guaranteed their wage for set hours. A farmer has no such guarantee and doesn't usually have a set clocking off time, especially those that farm animals. Driving a bus demands lengthy mental concentration but I'd dispute it's hard graft in the normal meaning of hard physical labour.

Jeanathome

I can't imagine somebody who labours on a farm has acccess to a lavish lifestyle. But I may be wrong.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by lavish.

Things have moved on for many farm workers. Calling them labourers is misleading. They are trained to use modern, high tech machinery and their lifestyle reflects this. Their children are often well educated in good state schools.

GrannyGravy13

I guess a lot of people who live in cities and suburbs know more about farming and land management than farmers /land owners.

No most are convinced milk come from Tesco and don’t care where it comes from they live on takeaways and junk food in any case.

Farm shops vary widely, if they are good they are expensive.

I guess a lot of people here who live in farming country
know more about the need for coal miners, steel workers and
iron workers

I guess a lot of people who live in cities and suburbs know more about farming and land management than farmers /land owners.

merlotgran

Jeanathome

Some of us have no choice. We can't all get to fashionable little farm shops.

Exactly and my hackles are always raised when a poster finishes a comment with, End of!!

DH managed 2000 acres of arable farmland for 25 years. We lived in a large farmhouse, drove a 4x4 and had ponies in the paddock. I’m sorry, vegansrock but your first comment did come across as rather sneery and hurtful yet any criticism is deemed a personal attack.

I’m more than happy to keep an open mind and discuss points of view other than my own support of farmers but why should anyone, owner, tenant, or worker be scoffed at for their lifestyle which goes with their job?

No point, merlotgran

Everyone knows far more about farming than farmers!

I can't imagine somebody who labours on a farm has acccess to a lavish lifestyle. But I may be wrong.

Jeanathome

Some of us have no choice. We can't all get to fashionable little farm shops.

Exactly and my hackles are always raised when a poster finishes a comment with, End of!!

DH managed 2000 acres of arable farmland for 25 years. We lived in a large farmhouse, drove a 4x4 and had ponies in the paddock. I’m sorry, vegansrock but your first comment did come across as rather sneery and hurtful yet any criticism is deemed a personal attack.

I’m more than happy to keep an open mind and discuss points of view other than my own support of farmers but why should anyone, owner, tenant, or worker be scoffed at for their lifestyle which goes with their job?

I live close to a couple of farm shops. To be honest they are very expensive and some of the stuff I've bought has been very poor quality. I can't afford to waste money.

I do wonder if the supermarkets pay the farmers so little why things cost double in a farm shop or even more. I've bought my eggs from a local farm for years but recently had to stop when the price went up again and they were costing almost 3 times the price of free range eggs in the supermarket.

Not only did farmers vote for Brexit but they encouraged others to do so too by putting huge vote leave placards on their land.

It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft

Being a bus driver is relentless hard graft. But they don't have Farage in his Barbour or the cheery camaraderie of their friends.

Paul Cheshire, emeritus professor of Economic Geography at the London School of Economics, has pushed back strongly on Bradshaw’s assertions in response.

He said:

“The inheritance tax loophole on farmland, introduced in 1984, simply pushed up the price of land without improving returns to active farmers.

“This is because, like most agricultural subsidies, the value of the relief was capitalised into land values. As tax planners cottoned on to its role as a licence to avoid IHT, they advised their super-rich clients to buy land and take advantage of it. In the 20 years to 2012, the price of farmland increased fourfold.

“This turned landowning farmers into millionaires but — especially since land represents a cost of production — did no good to the incomes of food producers. It created impoverished millionaires who claimed a need for more support. At the same time, because more expensive land had to be squeezed even harder for the last drop of revenue, the environmental damage caused by intensive agriculture was made worse. Taking at least some of this tax loophole away will do no harm to family farmers but will help both public revenues and the environment.'

Yes, it will reduce the price of farmland, so it can remain in 'proper'farming hands, those we all want to support.

The massive elephant in the room here, is, yet again, Brexit. Which farmers voted for in very large numbers- as they were lied to, again. Same as fishermen.

Some of us have no choice. We can't all get to fashionable little farm shops.

Anyone who wants to support farmers should stop buying fresh produce from supermarkets. End of!

In 1984 you could work hard and make enough to buy land, it was related to its productive capability.

Now very little spare cash from growing food and land prices are very high, some farmers have good diversified enterprises that are profitable, others are selling land for housing. If you have only farming income you are slowly sinking because you cannot reinvest.

The fact remains growing food is not profitable, whatever the value of land.

MayBee70

So, what did farmers do before 1984 when they had to pay inheritance tax?

I was wondering that as well. Why didn't they all disappear?

Anniebach

Farage in a Barbour jacket and wellies in London !

I certainly do not support every farmer

And Clarkson. Wasn’t it Clarkson who said a while back that he’d bought land as a tax avoidance scheme? Was Dyson there, too?