The Farmers Fight

I think everyone thinks all farmers are struggling and have no money. Some of them are - they have to rent their land from wealthy landowners- it’s these farmers we should support. There are a multitude of issues here- the UK only produces about 59% of food - the only country in Europe that is completely food secure is France and they have more land and better weather. Many of our rivers and waters are polluted by agriculture runoffs, much of our wildlife is killed off by pesticides and loss of habitats. Industrialised units force animals such as chickens to live totally unnatural lives. We need food production but we don’t need to defend everything that is done in the name of farming.

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

I just can’t see the public changing their diets to support British farming madalene, unless there is a war and they have no other options, can you? I do think a more concerted effort should be made for British products to be labelled as such, which would help - but will people, for example, willingly give up avocados for swede, I really don’t think so.

I can only speak for myself, but since Covid and multiple lockdowns my shopping list and subsequently what I cook has changed drastically.

I buy local whenever possible along with seasonally.

We do not need Mexican asparagus in December…

It’s Joe Public I’m taking about though GtannyGravy13. I buy British when I can, and use the farmer’s market, too - but the majority of people don’t, and it’s them that would need to change their habits, not people who already shop British. Price has a lot to do with it, but it’s the choice that I suspect is the determining factor.

madalene I'd rather it wasn't big groups of what was 5 or 6 farmers land (or the few really big conglomerates) either, producing our food.

The stranglehold and competition that the big supermarket chains have had on forcing food prices down for years now is what has put small farms out of business, as well as the increased 'flying in" of food from abroad where they not only can grow year round but also rely on very cheap labour.

Small farms that survive are the ones that have been able to diversify and market local products imaginatively, have places to let, have other earners.

My point is like it or not we can't turn the clock back unless most of the public are both able and willing to pay a lot more for food.

Gg13 I'm a little obsessed with IHT because it drives the divide between those who have and those who have not and IMO it creates a very unhealthy society. Just my personal view, of course, but polls do suggest that those countries that promote more equality in terms of wealth are happier and more cohesive than those that don't.
As you say, the really rich will always find a means of keeping as much of their wealth intact, however, it benefits no one if it is put into land apart from driving land values up, which of course is to their advantage. You can't graze more sheep or grow more wheat just because the land has doubled in value! It's a similar problem to house prices. High prices mean some can't get on the housing ladder whilst it funds the advantages already enjoyed by others, driving further inequality.
I live in a Conservative rural community, most of the farms are either small council owned farms that scrape a living or the bigger ones are owned by one of the three large estates in the area. The only one that I know for certain is owned by the farmer is adjacent to me. He rents most of his land out except for a few acres around his home and a few acres which he thinks will eventually get planning. He joked with me the other day that the housing estates built on the outskirts of our little town has put his three children through boarding school!

I agree Wyllow

Casdon

I just can’t see the public changing their diets to support British farming madalene, unless there is a war and they have no other options, can you? I do think a more concerted effort should be made for British products to be labelled as such, which would help - but will people, for example, willingly give up avocados for swede, I really don’t think so.

I can only speak for myself, but since Covid and multiple lockdowns my shopping list and subsequently what I cook has changed drastically.

I buy local whenever possible along with seasonally.

We do not need Mexican asparagus in December…

All Rachael Reeves said was that Farmers must pay their fair share like everyone else!

Independent news today
"Rachel Reeves has refused to back down over the planned extension of inheritance tax to agricultural properties,

telling farmers they must pay their share to fund public services including the NHS

This is perfectly reasonable as such, we might disagree on the IT amounts.

I just can’t see the public changing their diets to support British farming madalene, unless there is a war and they have no other options, can you? I do think a more concerted effort should be made for British products to be labelled as such, which would help - but will people, for example, willingly give up avocados for swede, I really don’t think so.

Inheritance tax is not just a UK obsession. Just checked France and Germany, and other EU countries. they all have it, it varies..

For example I checked on the figure in Germany to compare. Land is counted as part of and estate along with any other assets savings shares etc.

Spouses don't of course.
Children don't pay it as long as they live in the family home for 10 years

Rates for those in a Will - Siblings, nieces, nephews, step-parents, relatives by marriage, divorced spouse,

20.000 Euro allowance only then 15% to 43%

Rates for all others 20.000 Euro allowance then 30% to 50%

There is some relief for businesses including farmers but can't ind out how much.

So they start paying inheritance tax at a much lower rate than we do, but the tax is graduated.

madalene

And it’s reported that Rachel Reeves said yesterday that farmers have to pay for the NHS.
Really?

There is a letter going into 11 Downing St. today signed by 25+ big retailers.

It is pointing out that the new NI for employers will not encourage the economy to grow, it will have the opposite effect, loss of jobs, loss of investment and higher prices for consumers…

And it’s reported that Rachel Reeves said yesterday that farmers have to pay for the NHS.
Really?

So much sheer bitterness against farmers on here:

Farmers are rich
Farmers should stop moaning and IHT like everyone else
Jeremy Clarkson is a rich farmer, he exemplifies farmers (trying to avoid IHT)
Farmers drive big, posh, gas guzzling cars
Farmers send their children to private schools (really?)
It doesn’t matter if farmers stop farming because big conglomerates grow food too

And more. Such sheer envy and bitterness.
Personally I’m grateful for the farmers who work every day to put food on my plate. And I really prefer my food to be produced by ordinary farmers, not big conglomerates. And I also prefer my food to clock up fewer air miles and British food bought my British people does clock up fewer air miles. It’s really not alright to be eating kiwi fruits from New Zealand and avocados produced God knows where. That’s how we can cut emissions, buy British food!

I really do not understand why the U.K. is so obsessed with Inheritance Tax?

It’s a regressive and punitive tax on bereaved families .

The U.K. is a total outlier in having a flat rate 40% IHT (20% for farmers), if we have to have this unfair tax (my opinion obviously) why not have a sliding scale starting from 5% and rising to 40% for the largest and richest estates.

Bearing in mind that the richest people pay little IHT as they pay accountants and lawyers to keep their tax liability to a minimum. It is those in the middle which will now shoulder this burden.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202411/medium-944558-80680371-13027127-image-a-31-1706707248929.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202411/medium-278329-80680847-13027127-image-a-23-1706707151359.jpg

Trust the French farmers to choose a beautiful tv presenter who has set up her own farm to aid them in their protests. Kudos to them. They certainly do things differently!
I like Jeremy for many reasons, but he has a long way to go yet!

Farmers have had a pretty rubbish deal for a very long time but surely finding a way of helping farmers to generate a better income is better than supporting a tax advantage that benefits some of the richest people in our society and big corporations. How does it help farmers if land that is only fit for grazing sheep sells at £10k an acre? They can't make much money out of it but if it's sold even paying CGT it makes more money being put in the bank. The land, let's say a packet of 10 acres can be rented back to him but the new owner can pass it on to his heirs an asset worth £100k tax free. Even Clarkson admits it's why he initially bought his farm. This is what is happening all over the country, we need to get rid of this anomaly and look at the real reasons farmers are asset rich and income poor.

Clarkson and his hideous love of gas guzzling huge cars. His stupid little boys club.

But somebody like Greta Thunberg is to be mocked and derided.

I am not sure if this has already been mentioned, and GransNetters living in France can correct me, but I believe that local French Authorities can issue a Licence to Farm? If so, it would seem reasonable for any farmers who have been issued with a Licence to Farm would be exempt from IHT, but that people who own farmland, but do not farm, would be liable for IHT?

mae13

Come off it - it's Jeremy Clarkson first, second, last and all stops in between.

So how many, many generations of Clarksons have been continously toiling on the land?

He has never claimed to be a multi generational farmer

Come off it - it's Jeremy Clarkson first, second, last and all stops in between.

So how many, many generations of Clarksons have been continously toiling on the land?

flappergirl regarding your last paragraph, you do realise that food doesn’t miraculously appear in supermarkets ready wrapped?

As the world is focused on reducing climate change, reducing food miles should be high on the agenda.

The UK is not food secure the Government should be helping and encouraging farmers not penalising them!

keepingquiet

I find this whole thing a bit puzzling to be honest.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

We seem to have turned the tables here.

Striking, when doctors do it it's bad- but when farmers threaten to do it that's good?

I don't know much about inheritance tax because I won't ever have to pay it, no one I know has paid it, and my children won't have to pay it either.

Isn't this tax only paid when someone actually dies? It isn't taken from them at source on a regular basis as was the income tax I paid all my fifty years of working life, or is it? Would someone explain when these farmers will have to pay this tax?

I understand the farmers will have to hold over £3 million worth of assets? I find it difficult to feel sorry for someone with that much wealth to be honest.

I heard a farmer recently comparing themselves to the miners, which as someone whose family had been mining for over six generations, was quite frankly insulting. I think if you added up the total wealth my family made from mining for hundreds of years it wouldn't come near £3 million.

Of course we need the food, of course farmers work hard and deserve recognition- but some can't see the problems they face are no more than a little of a consequence of Brexit?

Project Fear has come home to roost and those who said we just had to face a little hardship are now having to deal with that 'hardship'.

Of course not all farmers voted for Brexit- they weren't listened to and now they are havng to deal with the reality like the rest of us.

Well said keepingquiet. A previous poster was aghast that the police might arrest farmers at the demonstration and I was about to cite their treatment of the miners. I remember the bloody scenes and the accepted rhetoric that miners were scum and somehow deserved it. It still makes me angry.

Farmers have always moaned and complained and considered themselves to be a special case. And yes, they did vote in their droves for Brexit despite the advice of their own union!

If Just Stop Oil are against excessive food miles then they should be protesting alongside the farmers…

Allira

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

It's clearly firing some people's serotonin levels up though?

Baiting people with their love of Clarkson, Trump, Farage and so on.

All cut from the same self serving, racist, cloth.

I don’t get the sense that the public will rally behind our farmers in the way they would like them to
And that would be a great shame because this really affects every one of them.
I can understand the public not getting behind a 20% increase on school fees, (since one bitter poster had to slip that in here), because it affects so few. In the case of farmers, however, there is no alternative, there's very little option for them.
It will be interesting to see as it gathers momentum.

It wasn’t meant as a political analysis in any way escaped, but what I thought was interesting was her layman’s analysis about the way the French rally around ‘the workers’, the attitude of the public to strikes, and some of the actions that have been taken to enforce their protests. That is a very different culture to the UK, where there isn’t the same workers/government divide, it’s a lot more grey. I don’t get the sense that the public will rally behind our farmers in the way they would like them to, and I wondered if the French farmers realise that the way they protest may not translate effectively. We shall see.