The Farmers Fight

This has been a really interesting discussion. Just to add that
if farmers leave an inheritance that will attract IHT their children will have 10 years to pay the required amount. Non-farming families have to pay IHT within 6 months I believe.

There is no point.

I get on well with my neighbour, despite our different politics. She was so cross about the changes to ITax and farming. She told me with a smile that her farmer relative plans to sell the farm now rather than leave it to his sons. He wants to avoid ITax. She said he celebrated this decision by buying himself a new Ferrari.
This is a true story

I was at the dentist this morning, and two local farmers were there having a good chat about it in the waiting room. What they said bears out your post Iam64- they weren’t bothered on a personal level, but they said it would be fun to watch from the sidelines.

We are only a few months away from the Conservatives being kicked out after they worked so hard to destroy so much. The anger directed at any attempt to recycle wealth shouldnt shock, Bevan’s comment is so relevant today

Sorry xx posting as I took a while to respond. I have an emotional connection to farming/animals/land. I had a similar emotional connection to the miners as their lives and communities were destroyed. The consequences of that are evident in former mining areas.

I agree Iam regarding the ‘class war’ element to this discussion. Those holding the wealth (and therefore the power) wishing to maintain that position.

Reminds me of the Aneurin Bevan comment:

“How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the 20th century”

Yes I agree - I’ve heard comparisons made between farming and steel work for example. We have lost so much of our manufacturing industries, it destroys communities. My area was king cotton, we had great engineering and manufacturing industries with mining 4 miles away. Now we have mass unemployment along with its friends, drug/alcohol abuse and mental health problems.
Our area is more sheep and some cattle than growing land. I know how hard our farmers work, ever day in every weather. I see how they’ve diversified. I’m grateful they are the carers of our countryside.
I’ve read only 200 of the wealthiest land owners per year will be affected. One positive may be limiting non farmers buying land to avoid tax. Farmers will pay 20% inheritance tax above the new £1m threshold when inherited by the next generation. That’s half the standard IT others pay. In effect many farming families can pass up to £3m tax free to their children if the farm is owned by a married couple. Onky the wealthiest landowners will be affected

Why not, Allira
I don't quite understand.

However, I thought Iam64 was referring to a debate on farming/small farms and the status quo?

Not ^defrosted^ of course.
Thanks autocorrect.

Deforested

madalene

Good posts GrannyGravy.
I’m unfortunately not surprised by some posts in this thread that show class war fare in all its horrible glory. The farmers provide our food. We already import far more food than we should if we wish genuinely to cut carbon emissions. Locally produced food produced fewer carbon emissions.

But don’t forget, when Starmer told us all he didn’t want to tell people how to live their lives last week, he also said that we’ve got to eat less meat and less dairy food in the future. I eat very little meat (I do eat some) but I eat a lot of dairy produce - yoghurt, cheese, milk, etc. I also eat eggs, which were categorised as dairy (although they’re not) when I did my Domestic Science O Level. I also eat and use quite a lot of eggs. So Starmer doesn’t want to tell us how to live our lives but says eat less meat and less dairy. The consequence of that of course, is fewer farms necessary.

The consequence of that of course, is fewer farms necessary
Another consequence of that is more imported soy requiring large swathes of land being defrosted, resulting in more CO2 being released into the atmosphere.

And the result of that?

It sounds like another ill-thought out idea.
This is really quite worrying.

Iam64

No I think it was maddy - someone I often agree with but on this occasion it seems we take slightly different views. I’m a bit conflicted about the small farmers. I’d like to see a forensic discussion rather than polarised shouting but hey ho

I don't think it's easy to compare farming with any other business or occupation.

No I think it was maddy - someone I often agree with but on this occasion it seems we take slightly different views. I’m a bit conflicted about the small farmers. I’d like to see a forensic discussion rather than polarised shouting but hey ho

Iam64

There’s reference to ‘the class war’ being visible on this thread by a poster expressing anger towards the government. Interesting - my thought on reading this thread was how clear the right leaning posters desire to support the status quo is.

a poster Do you mean me?
Anger?

It was a reasonable post.

There’s reference to ‘the class war’ being visible on this thread by a poster expressing anger towards the government. Interesting - my thought on reading this thread was how clear the right leaning posters desire to support the status quo is.

Whole thing a disgrace, Labour should be ashamed

Allsorts why should Labour ‘be ashamed’ because supermarkets don’t pay farmers a decent price for their produce?

Isn’t this the capitalist, free trade, market driven system so loved by the Conservatives?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

I agree

We do, however, need to help and encourage farmers in their efforts to preserve and increase biodiversity and wildlife which in turn helps them and all of us.
Intensive farming methods are not good for the future of the planet.

Farmers need help, not punishment.
Any sensible Government concerned about food production should realise this.

I'm beginning to think that Rachel Reeves is quite clueless with no foresight whatsoever. Looking for immediate gain without thought for the future in this and other areas.

Allira

Casdon

We say we support the farmers, me included. However, apparently only 62% of our food is produced in the UK, compared to 90% of the food consumed by the French. Some of that is explained by them being able to grow a wider range due to the warmer temperatures in the south, but not all.

The population density of the UK is more than twice that of France.

Yes, but they actively promote French food above all others, less than 10% of all food sold in supermarkets is made outside France. We no longer eat in season, or eat traditional foods to the same degree. The more relevant question is probably could the UK produce all its own food, and I suspect the answer is yes.

MaizieD

Allira

MaizieD

I support the farmers.

Would you like to support them by paying the true cost of what they produce?

I'd like to know that farmers are not having to give up their livelihood because supermarkets are not paying them the right price for their produce so that they cannot make even a living wage. .

Sainsbury’s boss was paid just under £5million last year – but this was just half of what his Tesco rival got
.
UK retailer Tesco has announced its preliminary results for 2023/24, reporting a profit of nearly £2.3 billion before tax.

Tesco's latest annual report showed that its CEO Ken Murphy was paid £9.9 million in the last financial year – an increase of £5.5 million increase on his previous pay package of £4.4 million, more than doubling his overall pay.

^Asda offers its CEO £10 million^

Sadly, that's the economic system we live under and which most people seem to approve of.

You could bet your life that, should the supermarkets pay the farmers the right price then prices in the shops would go up, the CEOs would retain their bloated salaries and supermarket profits would stay proportionately the same.

I'm afraid you're right. ☹

MaizieD

Casdon

Individual farmers don’t own a high proportion of land in the UK. Analysis done by Farmers Weekly:
www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/land-markets/who-owns-britains-farmland

Kind of paywalled, Casdon.

Can you do a bit of a precis or quote some figures?

Sorry, it opened for me the first time. Try this link from Countryfile.
www.countryfile.com/news/who-owns-england-history-of-englands-landownership-and-how-much-is-privately-owned-today

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

Whole thing a disgrace, Labour should be ashamed, we need Farmers they struggle as it is.

Allira

MaizieD

I support the farmers.

Would you like to support them by paying the true cost of what they produce?

I'd like to know that farmers are not having to give up their livelihood because supermarkets are not paying them the right price for their produce so that they cannot make even a living wage. .

Sainsbury’s boss was paid just under £5million last year – but this was just half of what his Tesco rival got
.
UK retailer Tesco has announced its preliminary results for 2023/24, reporting a profit of nearly £2.3 billion before tax.

Tesco's latest annual report showed that its CEO Ken Murphy was paid £9.9 million in the last financial year – an increase of £5.5 million increase on his previous pay package of £4.4 million, more than doubling his overall pay.

^Asda offers its CEO £10 million^

Sadly, that's the economic system we live under and which most people seem to approve of.

You could bet your life that, should the supermarkets pay the farmers the right price then prices in the shops would go up, the CEOs would retain their bloated salaries and supermarket profits would stay proportionately the same.

Casdon

We say we support the farmers, me included. However, apparently only 62% of our food is produced in the UK, compared to 90% of the food consumed by the French. Some of that is explained by them being able to grow a wider range due to the warmer temperatures in the south, but not all.

The population density of the UK is more than twice that of France.

We say we support the farmers, me included. However, apparently only 62% of our food is produced in the UK, compared to 90% of the food consumed by the French. Some of that is explained by them being able to grow a wider range due to the warmer temperatures in the south, but not all.