Call a General Election - Petition

Iam64. I could be more smug and spell out why my son and daughter in law prefer not to move to the North East. Although my eldest son and his two young sons are settled at school in the north of England.
Yes I must wait and hope for happy little people this time around.

Iam64

growstuff

ronib

LizzieDrip thank you for explaining your thoughts. I still think that parents have ultimate responsibility for their children and if, for any reason, a child is not thriving then parents should have the option to use private schools at an affordable price and vat free - education is not the privilege of the super rich.

Most private schools aren't 'affordable' to parents on an average income anyway. (Moreover, many aren't worth the money.)

What is an affordable price? My children work hard with reasonable incomes but private school fees out of their price range
Surely we want excellence for all, not just the wealthy

It's never going to happen. ☹

growstuff

ronib

LizzieDrip thank you for explaining your thoughts. I still think that parents have ultimate responsibility for their children and if, for any reason, a child is not thriving then parents should have the option to use private schools at an affordable price and vat free - education is not the privilege of the super rich.

Most private schools aren't 'affordable' to parents on an average income anyway. (Moreover, many aren't worth the money.)

What is an affordable price? My children work hard with reasonable incomes but private school fees out of their price range
Surely we want excellence for all, not just the wealthy

ronib

MaizieD You haven’t exactly sold me the idea of moving to the benighted North East. Seems a bit desperate and what work is available for my son? The south east is a completely different ball game!!

Smug and really rather rude

30 years ago I was told my 7 year old wasn’t dyslexic, she was an end of August birthday . She was finally diagnosed aged 22 after graduating with a 2.1 and yes I’d asked and been given the same answer when she was 11 and 16.

Her 8year old is under assessment. His teacher is sure of dyslexia. He’s arranging different coloured paper and other known supports. He’s made some changes for the child with the aim of reducing pressure and increasing self esteem. Things are very different ronib. Imperfect but this is like the majority of primary schools I know. Child centred

Most private schools aren't 'affordable' to parents on an average income anyway. (Moreover, many aren't worth the money.)

It's true that most private schools are unaffordable to parents on an average income, especially if they want to pay for more than one child.
It isn't true they aren't worth the money, because the only people who can correctly make that assessment are those who are paying for it, and they might think they are well worth the money. If you haven't experienced this, how can you know or be right in your assumption?

The ECHR is yet to rule on VAT on school fees.

ronib

LizzieDrip thank you for explaining your thoughts. I still think that parents have ultimate responsibility for their children and if, for any reason, a child is not thriving then parents should have the option to use private schools at an affordable price and vat free - education is not the privilege of the super rich.

Most private schools aren't 'affordable' to parents on an average income anyway. (Moreover, many aren't worth the money.)

Casdon

No, there are plenty of state secondary schools UK wide, although it might be more difficult in some places if you were trying to get your child into a highly rated school out of county, particularly if the school has limited availability. Where I live is very rural, no big cities within 40 miles in any direction, but we’ve still got a choice of four potential schools within 20 miles. It’s definitely cheaper to pay for transport and pre and post school provision than it is to pay private school fees, which are circa £20k per year.

The only independent school I would ever have considered for my own children because it genuinely does add value costs £45k a year. I was never going to have that kind of money. They went to local schools and I made sure they had all the support I could give. they did well and I'm glad I didn't waste my money.

Casdon

It is possible in rural areas too, but it’s definitely an enormous organisational challenge.There are four high schools within a 20 mile radius of my rural home in Powys, which is sparsely populated. I took my son 16 miles each way to school from the age of 7, because the local primary and secondary schools were not as good, he had to go to breakfast club and after school club so I could get to work, but it was still worth it for him. Not all parents have the means or motivation to do that though, which is partly why some schools struggle. Those that want the best schooling for their children find a way, they organise their own transport and after school club pick ups between them.

I live in a relatively isolated town, which has been a benefit to the secondary school. It's comprehensive and has a genuine range of children. However, the fact that there is only one viable other choice locally has meant that most children go to their local school. It means that the most able/easiest to teach children aren't creamed off by going to other schools and it's quite difficult to get to any of the nearest independents. Children from this town live too far from the Essex grammar schools to be eligible. The fact that it's a genuinely comprehensive school has been a benefit. It has a huge range of options for children of all abilities.

Casdon

People can of course still opt to use private schools provided they can afford it, they have sensibly factored in the worst case inflation scenario, and costed the impact of different political parties having different policies, and put aside a contingency in case of either of those events happening during the child’s school life.

Their choice however- but don't come and complain about VAT.

No, there are plenty of state secondary schools UK wide, although it might be more difficult in some places if you were trying to get your child into a highly rated school out of county, particularly if the school has limited availability. Where I live is very rural, no big cities within 40 miles in any direction, but we’ve still got a choice of four potential schools within 20 miles. It’s definitely cheaper to pay for transport and pre and post school provision than it is to pay private school fees, which are circa £20k per year.

Allira The middle classes will often find a way to get a good education for their children, they can afford to move to the catchment area of good schools and pay the premium on housing costs, they are able to buy coaching so they can get their children into the grammar schools that still exist, they can buy in top up tuition if a child is struggling in an important subject and they also step forward to become school governors and work to improve a failing school etc etc when all else fails they know about bursaries that can reduce the fees of independent schools so they become affordable.
I don't worry as much about kids from most middle class homes as they have the back up from parents and possibly financial help from grandparents, it's the ones from poorer homes, the disadvantaged kids that worry me most. It's difficult to run a school on the per pupil allocation, there's very little flesh on the bone let alone any fat! We need good state schools for every child regardless of which social class they come from.
I won a state funded scholarship to an independent girls day school, the fees are now over £21Kp.a., OH was also state funded at a boarding school as his father was a senior civil servant posted abroad, fees there are now nearly £60K p.a. These days you need to be really wealthy (or have generous grandparents) to afford private education for a couple of children, if adding VAT means more middle class children stay in state schools I think that will be a very positive thing and I'm sure their parents will ensure the school they are at gives them a good education!

Well, yes, Casdon. But ronib was talking about parents paying for private education. My real point was that private school fees could be considerably more than the cost of transport to a more distant state school which suited the child.

I live in a semi rural area (lots of former mining villages, a small town and Durham city. Only 2 of the 7 schools I thought of are in Durham. The profusion of State secondaries can't be unique to this area.

I appreciate that Wales could be very different.

It is possible in rural areas too, but it’s definitely an enormous organisational challenge.There are four high schools within a 20 mile radius of my rural home in Powys, which is sparsely populated. I took my son 16 miles each way to school from the age of 7, because the local primary and secondary schools were not as good, he had to go to breakfast club and after school club so I could get to work, but it was still worth it for him. Not all parents have the means or motivation to do that though, which is partly why some schools struggle. Those that want the best schooling for their children find a way, they organise their own transport and after school club pick ups between them.

Even in the benighted area of the NE where I live parents have the choice of 5 state secondary schools and two faith based ones (which do take non-faith pupils) all within a 10 mile radius.

Many don't have that choice, it's possible within urban areas but not in rural areas.

We do have a choice of two here now but the reputations of schools fluctuate and there are often local FB posts from anxious parents wondering how best they can get their child into a different school as the one in their catchment area has a dreadful reputation.

Taking away choice is fine if the only option is a good one.

MaizieD You haven’t exactly sold me the idea of moving to the benighted North East. Seems a bit desperate and what work is available for my son? The south east is a completely different ball game!!

Even in the benighted area of the NE where I live parents have the choice of 5 state secondary schools and two faith based ones (which do take non-faith pupils) all within a 10 mile radius.

I'm pretty sure that at least one of them would be suitable for a child who is not thriving in their current school, at far less cost than paying private school fees. VATable or not.

Rolls are falling, too, so there would be little difficulty in transferring...

People can of course still opt to use private schools provided they can afford it, they have sensibly factored in the worst case inflation scenario, and costed the impact of different political parties having different policies, and put aside a contingency in case of either of those events happening during the child’s school life.

LizzieDrip thank you for explaining your thoughts. I still think that parents have ultimate responsibility for their children and if, for any reason, a child is not thriving then parents should have the option to use private schools at an affordable price and vat free - education is not the privilege of the super rich.

ronib forgot to address your final question. I can assure you that the days of the ‘headteacher’s foibles ruling the roost’ are long gone, in my experience.

I'm seen this post a bit late sorry, but my first reaction to the prospect of another election is (to quote that Bristol lady) "not another one. Any government of whatever persuasion needs time to settle in, to make changes and for those changes to take effect. Does anyone really think there's a more effective alternative at present anyway? The Conservative Party are still sorting themselves out and there's no-one else really, is there?

ronib like all things in life, there’s a range - not all middle class areas necessarily have better schools. I live in a working class area and have 3 large comprehensives near me - all of which are very good schools.

Indeed, some of the state schools I’ve visited in a professional capacity, in the most deprived areas, have been the most impressive.

Of course, no-one can say all state schools extend their brightest pupils or deal effectively with dyslexia; in the same way that no-one can claim all private schools do the same.

However, I can confidently say that all state schools cater for gifted children and those with dyslexia far better now than 20 years ago.

LizzieDrip

Well ronib, at least you’ve admitted that your opinion is based on education from 20 years ago.

As someone who has recent, relevant experience of the state education system (both personally and professionally) I can absolutely assure you, things have changed a lot in the last 20 years (as you would expect)!

I find this and your previous post so interesting.
Is it possible, without divulging personal details to enlarge on the type of support and/or the subjects, levels of attainment etc. your gc experienced?
I'd like to be able to actually understand what happens to children in schools now.
A genuine query no hidden agenda (just in case you wondered😄).

I just want to say that if one got married and then found that their spouse had LIED about everything and had no intention of abiding by their marriage vows … it would be grounds for ending the relationship. Seems reasonable to be.

LizzieDrip I rather imagine that more middle class catchment areas will have better State school provision? Or are you saying that all State schools are able to extend the brightest?
Also do all State schools cope better with dyslexia now? Or are the foibles of the headteacher still ruling the roost?