Greg Wallace suspended

I think banter only works if both parties join in with great enjoyment.

When one party feels offended, degraded, embarrassed, stupid, uncomfortable about it, it becomes sexual harassment.

Dirty old men claiming "banter" as their get out clause for being sex pests is ridiculous and offensive in itself.

MissAdventure

I think banter only works if both parties join in with great enjoyment.

When one party feels offended, degraded, embarrassed, stupid, uncomfortable about it, it becomes sexual harassment.

Dirty old men claiming "banter" as their get out clause for being sex pests is ridiculous and offensive in itself.

👏👏👏

There may well have been a time when 'workplace banter', as some like to call it, was something women just had to put up with, but times have changed. And in any case, what Gregg Wallace did went way beyond any kind of banter I've ever encountered, and I've worked in some very male-dominated environments. Some of us have explained time and time again on these kind of threads why women may not have felt they could speak up at the time.

When I was a stupidly young woman working in an office with male managers and other male employees I felt extremely uncomfortable with the ‘banter’ I heard and coarse references to my body in particular but I simply cringed inwardly and tried to get away as soon as they came into the office. It was horrible. But at the time they probably also thought that I was happy to go along with it. I wasn’t and can still recall the sting of a slap to my backside as I walked past a group of male employees leering my way.
A small percentage of women might find sexually inappropriate jokes funny just as a small percentage of people probably find racist jokes funny. This doesn’t make it ok.

Spot on, MissAdventure and Babs03!

eddiecat78

Dibbydod you obviously live in a very different world from me. I have many friends who I have known for decades but we have never "joked about our sexlives". Yes I have worked in offices where there was banter but it was never done in a personal or humiliating way. It was not just 'banter' when Greg made a point of telling women he wasn't wearing underpants .In my opinion there is also something dodgy about a 60 year old man regularly posting photos of himself shirtless just to show off his muscles.
And personally I was furious about his comments ridiculing "women of a certain age" - presumably because he finds their concerns of no importance

Certainly does sound like we both live in different worlds .
Sex is often a topic of conversation , particularly when men are about for sure . I don’t take much notice of the men when they banter about sex , but , if i did feel offended then i would certainly speak up and put them in their place .
Also , I can’t ever remember seeing a top less photo of Wallis , and I doubt he has any “ muscles “ to show off anyway .

SMUDGIE , bit same here , I worked on driving taxies for 15 years and the sexist banter between the male and females would make your hair stand on end , but, as you say , it only done in fun and no offence taken by either party .

To me , the women who complain about this type of thing , I’d bet , in the heat of the moment , they take part in the banter theirselves , because they are enjoying themselves , I’ve heard it so many times in my life , but then later go on to complain what’s been said in the heat of the moment , and , in the case of celebrities then their career and their lives can be destroyed over what was , at the time, a fun filled moment in their lives , and I agree with Wallis , they do tend to be of a “ certain age “ as younger women really don’t take any notice as they can be just as bad as the men

There was a couple where I worked, who spent all day "bantering" with each other.

Not a couple as in a relationship, but even that used to get on everyone's nerves, all day and every day. 1

Victim blaming much there, are we not, Dibbydod? Just because you react in a certain way to what you describe as 'banter' doesn't mean every other woman does. How many times do we have to explain why someone may not feel they can speak up at the time?

I think you can only really speak for yourself, Dibbydod, nobody else at all.

MissAdventure

I think banter only works if both parties join in with great enjoyment.

When one party feels offended, degraded, embarrassed, stupid, uncomfortable about it, it becomes sexual harassment.

Dirty old men claiming "banter" as their get out clause for being sex pests is ridiculous and offensive in itself.

👏👏👏

Dibbydod Are you a man, by any chance?

Even though these may be women well able t respond with a withering put-down, even a programme like Celebrity Masterchef has a power balance of contestants versus judges. Would you deliberately upset a judge when you are competing and, obviously, want to win? Even if you think he's objectionable and lewd, you might ignore it at the time but, especially if you thought you were the only one being targeted. Who would listen? Not the producers. Not the BBC where there seems to be a culture of this kind of thing.

I expect every woman targeted in this way feels relieved to find they are not the only one and thst they might be listened to.

MissAdventure

I think banter only works if both parties join in with great enjoyment.

When one party feels offended, degraded, embarrassed, stupid, uncomfortable about it, it becomes sexual harassment.

Dirty old men claiming "banter" as their get out clause for being sex pests is ridiculous and offensive in itself.

I think it depends on on the character of the person , if a guy is a happy go lucky jokey respectful sort of guy with no intention to insult , then it can all be taken in fun & laughed off , so to speak , but , if it’s said with dirty meanings and undertones then obviously that is not ok and should be said at the time rather than bring it up years later . . Wallis is in the first category and he’s always up for laugh and just grins all the time , just the type of character of the guy he is . And because of his fun character he’s now being ridiculed and his career is in tatters for things he joked about with women who no doubt enjoyed the banter with him at the time .

Wallis is in the first category and he’s always up for laugh and just grins all the time , just the type of character of the guy he is . And because of his fun character he’s now being ridiculed

You know him personally, do you? And were there on all these occasions?
🤔

I always feel that banter has an undertone to it, myself.
Meaning that the hope is there for some no strings attached sex, or even the strings attached sort. (As in, a relationship)

Dibbydod if you can be bothered google Greg Wallace images and you will see there are loads of photos of him showing off his chest and legs - all with that self-satisfied "aren't I wonderful" grin on his face

Diddydod I am shocked by your attitude.
Obviously many of these women were offended by him and yes there are pictures of him with his shirt off. I will not reproduce them here but it went beyond jokey banter.

Of course I would say that as I am a middle-class woman of a certain age!!

Wallis is in the first category and he’s always up for laugh and just grins all the time , just the type of character of the guy he is . And because of his fun character he’s now being ridiculed and his career is in tatters for things he joked about with women who no doubt enjoyed the banter with him at the time

I really don't know how you can keep saying women who no doubt enjoyed the banter with him at the time. Just because you would have enjoyed it doesn't mean other women would.

As for always being up for a laugh and grins all the time, so did Jimmy Saville.

Yep I don’t like smutty blokes, or women for that matter! Once saw Jo Brand in a local pub, I walked out after 20 mins.
When worked for social services, I reported my boss for indecent sexual behaviour towards myself, his line manager came out to see me with his female boss- I explained what was going on & he just squeezed my thigh & said oh its because I am sensitive- female boss did sod all. If it had have happened today I would have reported him, for squeezing my leg.
Bring it on & stamp out these creeps!

I worked in offices from the age of 17 to 60 and never really encountered bad language or uncomfortable behaviour from anyone. The only thing I can remember is one older chap giving me a pat on the bum when he walked upstairs behind me.

I'm quite a fan of smut, in the right place, at the right time, and with someone clever enough to know how to "smut" properly.

I grew up with older brothers, and their friends. 50s and 60s- lots of banter, lots of sexual inuendos and more. No problem, knew how to deal with them, with humour. Same with some of our friends in adult life, no issue.

As MissAdventure says, a time and a place, and with the right people, in the right context. The boys I grew up with also taught me how to deal with creeps and worse.

Many women do not come forwards with such people as Wallace- because they think it is probably a 'one off' - and they know they won't be believed, they will be mocked and derided. And sometimes but women- see Dibbydod above (or is this a man???). But then when one person goes public- they think 'OMG, it was not just me, was not a one off- and as this woman will be not believed, mocked and derided, I shall tell all that she is NOT the only one, and support her'. Good!

Whether some believe sexually inappropriate jokes and behaviour is ok is irrelevant, this is a man paid royally by the beeb to host a popular show, not to try to entertain those taking part with his own dubious brand of humour, he should have behaved professionally not like an old boy propping up the bar down the pub.

I think it depends on on the character of the person , if a guy is a happy go lucky jokey respectful sort of guy with no intention to insult , then it can all be taken in fun & laughed off , so to speak , but , if it’s said with dirty meanings and undertones then obviously that is not ok and should be said at the time rather than bring it up years later . . Wallis is in the first category and he’s always up for laugh

No, that is the automatic defence of the “locker room banter-er” (if you know what I mean.)
It is a form of verbal bullying , short and simple. “No intention to insult” -really? There have been too many instances of men like Greg Wallace attempting to assert their superiority, show off, establish their Alpha male criteria or bolster their self-image.
It had to stop and should have done before now.

Totally agree with you there, RosiesMaw2. And how many times do I have to repeat this - there can be any number of reasons why someone may not report stuff like this at the time. Unless you have walked in their shoes, you don't know why.

Women may feel awkward reporting instances like this for a myriad of reasons, as MissInterpreted has already said. Some may feel so intimidated by a person like Wallace that they feel they cannot speak out at the time, others may feel that they are somehow the odd one out to feel so offended whilst others are going along with Wallace’s sexism, though those going along with it could be the former - too intimidated. Others may simply want to showcase their skills on a prime time show and so choose to simply ignore Wallace’s comments, though feeling equally disturbed by them.
The thing is the majority of women know that an accusation of sexual misconduct may not be taken seriously, dismissed, or mocked, so they will only tend to come forwards when others do. Safety in numbers.

Dibbydod, I would challenge your claim that young women are happy around offensive " banter" .
When my daughter was an undergraduate, working a few hours in a supermarket, she responded very robustly to such comments by a male colleague.
Her rebuff included some language that made it clear how she felt, and included a threat, in the event of any repetition, a report to his manager.
My daughters are all mothers of daughters and would call out any such behaviour, especially in a workplace ( and my daughter in law is an engineer, so works in a male dominated environment)