And they're off! Again!

ronib

Casdon that manifesto wasn’t dealing with asylum seekers but with regular/normal immigration.

You’ve missed the point ronib. Look at the net migration figures since 2019, and the proportion of those migrants who were asylum seekers, or for that matter, people who arrived by boat. My question was, do you think the last government delivered on its manifesto promise?

Oh dear, poor Michel Barnier.
How the mighty fall.

Wyllow3 well it’s obvious to me that Labour wants to clamp down on inherited wealth. It’s not targeting the rich however…..

Casdon that manifesto wasn’t dealing with asylum seekers but with regular/normal immigration.

How is our society being restructured? Can't say I've noticed it.

It was ronib, the Tory Manifesto for 2019 recognised it, but do you think it delivered? This is the manifesto pledge.

‘Introduce a points-based immigration system
Fewer lower-skilled migrants will be allowed into the UK.

The last Conservative manifesto reiterated the leadership's intention to reduce net migration to less than 100,000. It became an albatross - a much-criticised target that was never achieved. Boris Johnson had already jettisoned it in favour of an Australian style points-based system, attracting "the brightest and the best".

The focus on control means that fewer lower skilled migrants will be allowed into the UK. But while the Conservatives can argue this will mean less pressure on public services, it is these services which often rely on migrant labour.

This policy applies to the whole of the UK.’

(From BBC analysis of Manifesto promises)

Also of course the immigration problem wasn’t quite so pronounced when the Conservatives wrote their manifesto. However a restructure of society has always been on the cards under Labour - they just forgot to tell the voters.

MaizieD I can mourn the colossal waste of government spending and it shows no signs of slowing down.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Strong and stable government, French style. As de Gaulle said, “How do you run a country with 240 varieties of cheese!”

On nearly all parameters France is delivering better for its population than the UK FriedGreenTomatoes2. People in glass houses are always advised not to throw stones.

Strong and stable government, French style. As de Gaulle said, “How do you run a country with 240 varieties of cheese!”

escaped

I think things have gone beyond any feelings of Schadenfreude because the current challenges facing us are universal. There isn't one country amongst our European friends that is currently feeling any joy in observing the pain of another.
I guess what there is, however, is a kind of sympathy that validates our own status here. UK politics appears a bit less bonkers in my opinion than the chaotic goings on in a volatile France.
I think the Brits are blessed with a bit more sangfroid!

I think the main difference is that the legacy of the Revolution means that the French like to protest first and foremost, then do the more sensible thing. Someone said that they vote in the first instance with their hearts and then their heads, which is what happened in the mess of the summer elections this year. It has always felt to me that the Prefect of Calvados and the Normandy regional government has much more influence on our daily lives than Paris.
Performative miserabilism is certainly a thing; I have lost count of the people who tell me how awful France is and then look at me in abject horror when I ask if they would like to live somewhere else.

ronib

FGT2 well I don’t like the way this government is running roughshod over the farmers and inheritance taxes which were not included in their manifesto.
If we had pr, surely a more evenly balanced HoC might stop the madness of a government with such a huge majority?

That Rwanda scheme that you are mourning on another thread wasn't in the tory manifesto, either.

Parties aren't obliged to only do things that are in their manifesto.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^The budgets were looking to save €60 billion through tax rises and spending cuts^

Rachel Reeves should perhaps count herself lucky then with the £20 billion black hole here that she ‘discovered’ Mamie! Suddenly our country seems quite wealthy ….

Except that France has a wonderful Health Service (with access to cutting edge treatment as we are particularly aware at the moment), good social services, including arrangements for the elderly to remain in their own homes with a huge amount of support. Plus investment in utilities, good transport links, road maintenance etc.
That is where the money goes in successive French governments. It is basically a socialist country, no matter who is in charge.

I thought the presidential elections in France were separate to the parliamentary elections David49, so Macron will be there until his presidential term ends, regardless? That’s a good thing, because he is in charge of issues like defence, and it will ensure some stability whilst the parliamentary issues rumble on.

I think things have gone beyond any feelings of Schadenfreude because the current challenges facing us are universal. There isn't one country amongst our European friends that is currently feeling any joy in observing the pain of another.
I guess what there is, however, is a kind of sympathy that validates our own status here. UK politics appears a bit less bonkers in my opinion than the chaotic goings on in a volatile France.
I think the Brits are blessed with a bit more sangfroid!

The budgets were looking to save €60 billion through tax rises and spending cuts

Rachel Reeves should perhaps count herself lucky then with the £20 billion black hole here that she ‘discovered’ Mamie! Suddenly our country seems quite wealthy ….

mae13

Sir Keir, a leader of no political charisma whatsoever, should not entertain any feeling of security in having such a massive Commons majority - he should look across the Channel to France where the government has been overwhelmingly crushed.

France will muddle through until the next election when it’s likely to move to the right, Macron will stay until then.

In the UK Starmer has committed to the tax increases, we have heard of the spending increases planned, health, policing etc. The growth plans announced won’t increase revenue in the short term, he needs a lot of benefit cuts to balance the budget, they will be very unpopular, much more than the WFA storm in a teacup.

Universal Credit means a lot of working people are receiving tax credits or housing costs…

One of the things you have to understand is that this only affects domestic policy. The President remains in charge of foreign policy. We had a long stretch with Attal's caretaker government before the various factions agreed to Barnier's government and he will now remain as caretaker until a new PM is agreed. The new general and sécu budgets were always going to upset the left and the far right (imo) just like being disruptive. France Insoumise (the extreme left) will never agree to anything. The budgets were looking to save €60 billion through tax rises and spending cuts so that won't happen until a new government is formed.
Regional government is far stronger here and I doubt much will change in our lives in the short to medium term.
Sorry to disappoint those expressing gleeful schadenfreude, but there are no real parallels with the UK constitution here.

Sir Keir, a leader of no political charisma whatsoever, should not entertain any feeling of security in having such a massive Commons majority - he should look across the Channel to France where the government has been overwhelmingly crushed.

FGT2 well I don’t like the way this government is running roughshod over the farmers and inheritance taxes which were not included in their manifesto.
If we had pr, surely a more evenly balanced HoC might stop the madness of a government with such a huge majority?

I agree, FPTT makes for a more effective government when they're in office. & that's got to be a good thing.
Cons are that it probably makes party politics worse (where they spend more time rubbishing each other than actually thinking what needs to be done) & the fact that so many people's votes don't actually count, that would count with PR.

I don’t like the concept of PR voting at all. All jockeying for position and having to make pacts and concessions that rarely hold together - a right dog’s dinner and no-one gets what they want (voters or politicians). Proponents say “oh it’s all about consensus and discussion and not allowing one party to run roughshod over the others”. Balderdash.
In my opinion.

That's exactly it, Oreo, the parties join forces to collapse the government, then come the next election they'll be squabbling because they are politically so far apart.

Mamie

I think the pension reforms have been essential and reasonable, as is the latest sécu budget. I have no patience with 17 year olds being interviewed and saying it is a disgrace that anyone should have to work past 55.
It is classic French miserabilism.

It’s ridiculous isn’t it?
As regards the PR debate, our FPTP method of voting gets moaned about but at least it means one Party gets into power and gets things done whether we agree with their policies or not, while other countries have 3 or more Parties all fighting each other like rats in a sack.