Overspend/under delivery by the former government confirmed!

David49

Should have read

There was no advanced emergency supply.

There was an 'emergency supply'. Most of it proved to be out of date and useless. It was all looked after by a private company in a warehouse. Matt Hancock, in his evidence, said that there were logistical difficulties in distributing it. (See the Interim Report) Which' of course; was only half the story.

Should have read

There was no advanced emergency supply.

That was emergency supply, you know there was no emergency supply.

David49

PPE, there was a large quantity written off purely because it had not got the “CE” mark on it and it was determined
“unsafe”. As an alternative operatives used home made masks or no masks and aprons.
How sensible was that.

Can you give a source for that? Was that PPE from the 'emergency supply' or was it PPE purchased during the pandemic by one of the government's VIP lane mates?

I thought we were just talking about the UK's supposed emergency stockpile.

PPE, there was a large quantity written off purely because it had not got the “CE” mark on it and it was determined
“unsafe”. As an alternative operatives used home made masks or no masks and aprons.
How sensible was that.

HousePlantQueen

David49

We know that the government carried out a large scale rehearsal for a major pandemic about 10 yrs ago, one of the shortcomings was lack of PPE.

They knew that a large store of PPE was needed but did nothing about it, when Covid started they had nothing outside the regular supply chain.

How much emergency PPE stockpile is available now?.

Yes, a rehearsal was carried out under the stewardship of Jeremy Hunt as Health Secretary, and basically filed away in the 'too hard' drawer.

If you look at the Covid Inquiry Interim report which I linked to a few days ago, or even the bits I quoted from it, you will see that there were several 'pandemic' exercises carried out at various levels. Most of the recommendations which followed from those exercises were not implemented and some of the people who should have been given the reports from those exercises weren't even aware that they had been carried out.

As to the matter of out of date PPE. If it's out of date it's out of date and we none of us have enough (or any) expertise in the matter of PPE to be able to make a judgement. I think that more will come to light as further Inquiry reports are published.

But keeping the stuff in date is a matter of stock control and every good storekeeper should know that. The PPE which was getting too near to its use by date should have been issued and replacement stock bought in. This would apply to well before the pandemic, it should have applied from whenever the emergency stocks were set up. Unfortunately, the responsibility for those stocks went to a private company, at some time, (tory 'small state, privatise everything) which clearly didn't do its job properly.

The extract I quoted also pointed out that the civil servants who were supposed to be working on emergency planning were taken off the job to deal with 'No Deal' Brexit planning...

Emergency planning is an ongoing part of the government's job. It is, in theory, continuous.

David49

We know that the government carried out a large scale rehearsal for a major pandemic about 10 yrs ago, one of the shortcomings was lack of PPE.

They knew that a large store of PPE was needed but did nothing about it, when Covid started they had nothing outside the regular supply chain.

How much emergency PPE stockpile is available now?.

Yes, a rehearsal was carried out under the stewardship of Jeremy Hunt as Health Secretary, and basically filed away in the 'too hard' drawer.

petal53

Lots of groups discussing things costs lots of money. After 14 years in opposition, only now do they decide to discuss things to decide what to do.

This has always been the way of government, most work is done by working commitees, not by shouting at each other in PMQs

Mollygo

^Sunak had to call an election^
Agreed.
^ Labour Party were right after all with the holes in spending.^
The same holes that they said didn’t exist when Sunak proposed to cut the WFA to help fill them?
The policy that Starmer condemned when he was in opposition, but carried out once in power in order to fill the hole that suddenly existed?

The problem is, Mollygo, this hole isn't like your normal hole such as a hole in a bucket, a pothole, a sink hole or even a Bernard Cribbins' type of hole in the road, it's a black hole.

Black Holes are very difficult to detect because they're invisible.
There may be many more. 😯

Kalm

I shall be taking the next Pandemic alert with a massive pinch of sodium chloride. What with a war footing, UFO's, a shortage of Guinness, migrants, muslims taking over....."move along" as the good copper says......

shortage of Guinness
😯 you just reminded me I have a tin of Guinness languishing around somewhere; no-one drinks it and its bb date may have passed by.

I'll go and put it in the casserole I'm making.

Cossy

Freya5

The current Gov is no better. In fact it's making things much worse. It's adding greatly to the debt already there. Labour have a bad reputation of spending other people's money, till other people's money, ie tax payer, runs out.

I think it’s far too early to judge this govt.

It’s clear there was £££££££ wasted in the last govt.

May - ££££££ to the DUPs
Johnson - ££££££££££££ Track & Trace and PPE (just name two)
Truss - a fiscal disaster in 6 weeks.

I’m not a fan of some of the LP policies nor how they’ve been implemented, but one cannot compare 14 years to 6 months.

We need to be see the impact, negatively or positively, before we judge.

Well said Cossy, it is too early to judge this gov't, I partly agree with the winter fuel allowance but they should have stopped it at higher rate tax payers.
Some of our farmers have paid others to protest in London on their behalf. Rich people buying farms to evade inheritance tax have artificially inflated land prices so people who want to farm can't afford to do that so maybe this will adjust that imbalance.
But the monied classes who have lost their tax loophole have had their anger amplified and riled even those it could benefit now.

The WHO initiatives I mentioned above and the UK plan go as far as very early warnings and increasing the ability to very quickly develop vaccines.

I don't think it's realistic to keep full stocks for all eventualities but surely having larger stocks than currently being needed, but it being used up as we go along not separately stockpiled is a worthwhile compromise.

Sunak had to call an election
Agreed.
^ Labour Party were right after all with the holes in spending.^
The same holes that they said didn’t exist when Sunak proposed to cut the WFA to help fill them?
The policy that Starmer condemned when he was in opposition, but carried out once in power in order to fill the hole that suddenly existed?

Freya5

The current Gov is no better. In fact it's making things much worse. It's adding greatly to the debt already there. Labour have a bad reputation of spending other people's money, till other people's money, ie tax payer, runs out.

what Labour do is spend money on welfare issues, such as the NHS, schools and housing which billionaires don't need hence they say Labour spend too much. I am happy to pay taxes to Labour cos it goes on breakfast clubs for kids, youth centres etc which make the country nicer for us all to live in.

Wyllow3

Thank you for this absolute clarity. No wonder Sunak had to call an election, and the Labour Party were right after all with the holes in spending.

What a legacy.

I totally agree, and the Tory media, which includes the BBC, is busy dissing Labour although they are doing a lot of good

I shall be taking the next Pandemic alert with a massive pinch of sodium chloride. What with a war footing, UFO's, a shortage of Guinness, migrants, muslims taking over....."move along" as the good copper says......

Mollygo

petal53

And I agree Lydie. People have short memories.
I wonder how much preparation the new government is engaged in now ready for the next pandemic.

Could someone explain unusable or out of date?
If that’s the reason it was unusable, what purpose would be served by stockpiling it in case of another pandemic?

Storing PPE costs a lot of money, apparently.

According to a Labour MP in 2022:
Meg Hillier, a Labour MP and chair of the Commons public accounts committee, said: “The numbers are staggering – over 30bn items of PPE received so far with 5bn more on the way and 3.6bn items that can’t be used by frontline services. Storage alone has cost over £700m, with DHSC continuing to spend £7m a month storing PPE it doesn’t need.

So either Be Prepared and risk the equipment going past its bb date or risk not being prepared for another pandemic.
🤔

I can find a lot of discussions going on in the WHO and this plan Nov 2024
www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-create-world-first-early-warning-system-for-pandemics

Agree with the Rwandan debacle by the Tories, they were complete failures. Most right wing countries lead to impoverishment by reducing public spending and austerity that always affects the poor. Fundamentally disagree with increasing prison buildings. There is much quoted religious text along the lines of God helps those who help themselves. If govt policies don't affect lives the cycle of criminality stays the same. The Woolf reports made some excellent recommendations in 1990 ref Strangeways. Instead of spending money on prisons (which appears to be a personal ambition of the justice Sec) the money should be spent on mental health, the complete eradication of drugs, mobile phones, play stations etc. More money spent on 1:1 compulsory teaching on maths, english and other vocational skills directly related to parole for non-violent criminals or where no harm to people or property has been caused. Lord Timpson has some expertise here.
For seriously violent criminals who have a history of bad behaviour no parole until after 50 years as a minimum.

MaizieD

^couldn't he make some decisions that people want like get rid of TV licence don't watch BBC why do I have to pay for it^

The TV licence isn't to 'pay' for the BBC. The licence is a licence to receive live television, from whatever channel.

The TV licence no more pays for the BBC than the vehicle tax pays for the upkeep of the roads. It's a myth and it's time that government came clean on it...

It’s not a myth at all.The BBC licence fee goes to the BBC and is part of their revenue.It helps pay for all BBC programmes and radio.The BBC was the only public broadcaster at the time licences were required and it’s nonsense for many people to have to contribute this way when they never watch BBC programmes or listen to the radio.That goes for most people in their 20’s I bet.

petal53

And I agree Lydie. People have short memories.
I wonder how much preparation the new government is engaged in now ready for the next pandemic.

Could someone explain unusable or out of date?
If that’s the reason it was unusable, what purpose would be served by stockpiling it in case of another pandemic?

And I agree Lydie. People have short memories.
I wonder how much preparation the new government is engaged in now ready for the next pandemic.

I’ve never understood how or why PPE can be unusable, unless it was supplied with a clear fault such as only one strap. Seems unlikely. It seems likely that it was out of date, but how plastic aprons and flimsy blue masks can become out of date and therefore unusable defeats me. And when I was in hospital during the pandemic with Covid, that was all the PPE the staff wore.

Evert one keeps on about the last 14 years, it’s as if no government existed before that. Short memories indeed, strikes, power cuts a note saying “no money left”.

Dont forget Covid. Yes there were a scandals but many people and businesses were saved. Yes you do have very short memories.

I did read the Cygnus review as far as I could see the local health authorities were advised to hold “resilient” reserve.

You would have thought a direct requirement for at least a 3 month reserve supply of PPE for an emergency.