Toilet training - government responsible ?

It’s certainly true that some toddlers experience extreme anxiety if they have strict regimes of potty training, where I worked we had a clinic for those children who were so scared to go that they held it in and became chronically constipated. The old ways are not without issues.

When I was doing post-grad DipEd, the psychology professor got onto the subject of potty training. The message seemed to be that early training produced repressed adults whatever that may have meant - I think I stopped listening. Whatever his opinion, I can't believe that he had substantial evidence to support it.

There’s no doubt that some children and families benefitted. We had midwives, health visitors, drug / alcohol teams as part of the multi disciplinary approach
Absolutely true, and many families still benefit from the existing multidisciplinary approach at the hubs and other more localised set ups now.
It still doesn’t make those parents who need it most, able or willing to use them any more than they did before.
My sister benefitted from regular health visitor support when she had children. This had dwindled to one visit after the birth by the time I had mine and after that, I had to walk about 2.5 miles or went on the bus to the nearest clinic. The reason was economics.

Sure Start was aimed at all parents with the hope the stigma some direct towards local authority family centres. I worked in several, in deprived areas. We worked with hard to reach families, running various groups. There’s no doubt that some children and families benefitted. We had midwives, health visitors, drug / alcohol teams as part of the multi disciplinary approach. Sadly, many of these centres of excellence were lost because of austerity.

The parents are responsible and not the school. I was a young mother, money was very tight. There is no excuse for sending children to school in nappies. No wonder people don’t want to be teachers. I wouldn't be doing it. Covid is an excuse not a reason, former generations had wars to contend with, it seems everyone is suffering from some ism.

Luminance

Don't you think it is rather a strange society that not only forces both parents to work a full time job but expects those parents to pay for the privilege of someone else raising their children while they do so? And then this same society we have created for ourselves gets rather irate at the idea that the paid child care providers that must be sourced might have to do the potty training for a child that spends more time awake with them than their own parents? Of course while all this is going on, parents are putting their own children into childcare while they too work with other children and usually forced to have their children attend childcare elsewhere as working with their own children is rather bizarrely frowned upon. I find it all quite strange.

Agree totally. A lot of SMUG people on here. Times have changed and not in a good way. Glad I was at home with my children when they needed to be potty trained, it’s not an option these days is it.

Luminance

Don't you think it is rather a strange society that not only forces both parents to work a full time job but expects those parents to pay for the privilege of someone else raising their children while they do so? And then this same society we have created for ourselves gets rather irate at the idea that the paid child care providers that must be sourced might have to do the potty training for a child that spends more time awake with them than their own parents? Of course while all this is going on, parents are putting their own children into childcare while they too work with other children and usually forced to have their children attend childcare elsewhere as working with their own children is rather bizarrely frowned upon. I find it all quite strange.

I don't think shaming people and calling them snowflakes is helpful.

It's so sad the way parents can't spend time with their children. Unless there is extended family willing to step in, children are putting in very long hours in day care.
It's downright cruel.

Sarnia

What a bunch of snowflakes we are cultivating. Goodness knows what they would do if they had to use towelling nappies as most of us did. Taking the lid off the bucket in the morning cleared your catarrh. Schools need to tell parents that only confidently toilet trained children will be allowed to start school. The should spur them on.

You're quite right Sarnia.
I only had terry nappies for my three. Having to soak them in a bucket of Napisan. Trying to get them dry in the winter.
Parents would be glad to get them into pants wouldn't they.
It's seems like everything else, some would rather let someone else do it all for them.

Smileless2012

Maybe, unless there are medical reasons for a child not being toilet trained when starting school, children shouldn't be allowed to attend until they are.

Our boys couldn't have started at the local playgroup until they were dry.

The same with my three. Smileless
They had to be three years old and above and toilet trained.

Luminance

Don't you think it is rather a strange society that not only forces both parents to work a full time job but expects those parents to pay for the privilege of someone else raising their children while they do so? And then this same society we have created for ourselves gets rather irate at the idea that the paid child care providers that must be sourced might have to do the potty training for a child that spends more time awake with them than their own parents? Of course while all this is going on, parents are putting their own children into childcare while they too work with other children and usually forced to have their children attend childcare elsewhere as working with their own children is rather bizarrely frowned upon. I find it all quite strange.

But then if one parent decides to cut their cloth extremely more frugally so as to enable them to raise their own child they are criticised for not contributing to the tax take and therefore qualifying as a leech on society. Best to just accept parents can't win, they're always but always in the wrong!

I too, find it strange.

Don't you think it is rather a strange society that not only forces both parents to work a full time job but expects those parents to pay for the privilege of someone else raising their children while they do so? And then this same society we have created for ourselves gets rather irate at the idea that the paid child care providers that must be sourced might have to do the potty training for a child that spends more time awake with them than their own parents? Of course while all this is going on, parents are putting their own children into childcare while they too work with other children and usually forced to have their children attend childcare elsewhere as working with their own children is rather bizarrely frowned upon. I find it all quite strange.

That'll go down well, I'm sure.

Iam64

MissAdventure, I’m so fed up with the suggestion today’s parents are glued to their phones and don’t know how to parent. It just isn’t my experience. The parents who need help would have benefitted from Sure Start family centre support. Those left leaning Scandi countries know that investing in early years provides positive long term outcomes.

The parents who need help aren’t always the ones who can afford time off work to get it. The ones who could, tended to be the ones who went to the Sure Start centre.

You’re right that not all parents are glued to their phones. You’re right that not all parents can’t parent, but KS seems to feel that some parents can’t parent their children out of nappies.
I’m just keen to know what he’s going to do and how he will make it SMART.

Maybe pay for parents to be SAHP so they have time to attend the training that they can’t go to because they’re working.

My DS1 I found very hard to toilet train as he has autism (was not heard of then, but now I realise his problem) I got him potty trained by two and a half.This was helped by the fact that I was pregnant with his younger brother at the time and was not looking forward to washing and drying double the amount of Terry nappies when the baby came.DS2 was completely different, he just about toilet trained himself as he could not tolerate being in a wet or dirty nappy for long and, as soon as he was able, would try and remove it.
My mother, who had five children, thought it a disgrace for a child to be in nappies at 18 months!
My grandchildren and great grandchildren seemed to take longer but I put that down to modern parenting and did not interfere.

I worked full time when my two daughters were born. They were toilet trained at 2, the age recommended by the health visitor. This was in the 1980’s when we had continuity of midwife and health visitors.

Many mothers, of course, do work, but they could keep the child at home when they have a week’s holiday, and give it a try.

I was involved with Sure Start, did feel that it was the responsible parents that took part, not the ones that needed guidance…… which was defeating the objective really 🤔

MissAdventure, I’m so fed up with the suggestion today’s parents are glued to their phones and don’t know how to parent. It just isn’t my experience. The parents who need help would have benefitted from Sure Start family centre support. Those left leaning Scandi countries know that investing in early years provides positive long term outcomes.

In the 70’s, I taught primary one classes of thirty plus pupils without a classroom assistant. There wasn’t such a person then. I must say, I never had any pupils who weren’t toilet trained.

That wasn't to you, Iam64.

This thread shows its not all young parents.
Doctors - I doubt they're that young, and also some of the members here had children who took longer to be dry day and night.

ruthiek

Bazza I was listening to Jeremy vine as well and couldnt believe that lady she seemed well educated but didn’t seem to have a clue , did she not have family/friends ? I think with the socialists in it will only get worse as the nanny state will become bigger and young parents will excpect someone else to do it

And another one 😂🌞

The Blair government based Sure Start on research that confirms investment in Early Years really pays off. Fewer teenage pregnancies, lower drug/alcohol dependence, less mental health problems.
Then along came Cameron and of course Gove who dismissed the need of experts

Kayteetay1

Was wondering about that. The Tories have governed for 67 of the last 100 years so doubt the socialists had a great part to play in deferring timely toilet training during the last 14 years of Conservative rule.

Sometimes we have to laugh at nonsense -because Starmer wants to put focus back in Early Years, suddenly it’s socialist chikdren who aren’t toilet trained

AuntieE, before training mine, I had read that most children were not physiologically ready before 2. It took just a week for both of mine soon after their 2nd birthdays.