Isabella Jonas-Wheildon

Galaxy

I think it might be more complex than that to be honest. And lots of people arent brave. In fact I would say bravery is a relatively rare quality.
They failed her of course.
Being accused of bigotry of whatever type is I would say fairly career destroying, and even if you come out of the accusation unscathed, the process is the punishment. Many many people would try to avoid that. I personally think we dont have evidence at the moment that this was a factor in this case but it's worth talking about generally.

How is it bigotry to see religion as irrelevant when investigating child abuse? What is bigotry is to use the hijab as an excuse not to do anything or even worse to think that abuse is somehow part of Muslim culture and leave them to get on with it without interfering.

If there were suspicions of abuse, the hijab shouldn't have made any difference. Even strict adherents of Islam are allowed to remove hijabs in front of female medics, especially if the parent was present. If the parent refused, there would have been every reason to take the child into care. The Sharif family weren't strict Muslims, so warning bells should have rung.

A 2 year old girl, a baby, horrific

Anniebach

A 2 year old girl, a baby, horrific

Dreadful.
The mother (if that term can be used) was seen drinking wine and laughing when her baby was dead in pushchair.

Sterilisation is needed in cases like that, for both of them.

It certainly is a complete horror show anniebach unbearable to even think about.
Is this thread really about how horrible this case is tho? I don’t think so, I think it’s about only wanting to discuss the Sharif case and the fact they were a Muslim household….
So I’m out.

Oreo

It certainly is a complete horror show anniebach unbearable to even think about.
Is this thread really about how horrible this case is tho? I don’t think so, I think it’s about only wanting to discuss the Sharif case and the fact they were a Muslim household….
So I’m out.

Yes, it was started with the intention of goading, I think.

Using a baby's death to goad posters.
Horrible.

Franski they told family they were going away on holiday.
The mother had just moved in with him.
That is possibly why they weren't more involved.

At least that's what I took from the article.
I have read nothing more about this terrible case.

Allira

Oreo

It certainly is a complete horror show anniebach unbearable to even think about.
Is this thread really about how horrible this case is tho? I don’t think so, I think it’s about only wanting to discuss the Sharif case and the fact they were a Muslim household….
So I’m out.

Yes, it was started with the intention of goading, I think.

Using a baby's death to goad posters.
Horrible.

You are no mind reader and have no right to judge.

It wasn't about goading (although I'm not surprised people with guilty consciences see it that way) - it was about the unnecessary mention of religion in one case and comparison with another.

Both cases are equally abhorrent. Maybe it would be more fruitful to discuss what both cases have in common.

Your O/P shows your concern about the religion of the murderer,

If 'religion' is involved in any of these horrible, horrible, child murders and / or abuse, then I'd say it's not really the religion that is to blame, but the way it's been perverted to suit the agenda of the abuser.

Which is a different thing all together, and can apply to any religion.

Anniebach

Your O/P shows your concern about the religion of the murderer,

No, it does not. How on earth do you work that out?

Dickens

If 'religion' is involved in any of these horrible, horrible, child murders and / or abuse, then I'd say it's not really the religion that is to blame, but the way it's been perverted to suit the agenda of the abuser.

Which is a different thing all together, and can apply to any religion.

I agree with you. I don't believe religion has anything to do with any of the murders. I don't see why the topic should even have been introduced into discussion about Sara Sharif's murder. Isabella's murder is equally horrific, but there is no mention in anything I've read about her mother's or mother's partner's religion.

What all these murders have in common is that children were at the mercy of some very sadistic people (not always male, but often) and that authorities which should have protected the children failed.

Sara Sharif's father and step-mother obviously weren't stupid and realised that they could use a hijab to cover up her injuries, even though they aren't practising Muslims and no other females in the family wear hijabs. The religion itself had no part in the murder, which is what the dog-whistle comments have implied.

It’s nothing at all to do with religion or with race it’s a baby being killed by her own parent and unfortunately baby and child killers come in all races, all colours, all religions
Horrible horrible people and I hope they throw the key away and I hope they have a horrible time in prison
They d be on bread and water and in solitary if I was in charge
Poor little baby they didn’t care a hoot

It is still more complex than that, religion is at times a relevant factor to be discussed in abuse cases, the issues within the catholic church for example are around abuse of power, the fact that priests are seen as 'safe people', their access to children, etc. So it isnt about the religion as such but it is fine to discuss the aspects of it which can lead to safeguarding risks. I am wary of any reluctance to discuss specific issues with regard to safeguarding.

Growstuff you started this thread , the murder of a small child and wondered what the religion of the murderer is.

Anniebach that’s confusing me too ???

I totally agree Galaxy religion can and does have a big role to play in abuse of children by priests, vicars, the religious state etc etc but I don’t think it plays a part in individual cases unless of course it’s pointed out that the parents religion did have some influence… neither does the parents ethnicity, again unless that plays a part as in sacrifices
But
None of that applies in this case the mother and lover appear Caucasian and no religion is suggested, they are just baby killers and need a heavy punishment I think 10 years is way way to short a sentence for the mother
They both should have had life like the little baby

Anniebach

Growstuff you started this thread , the murder of a small child and wondered what the religion of the murderer is.

You misunderstood my OP.

Galaxy

It is still more complex than that, religion is at times a relevant factor to be discussed in abuse cases, the issues within the catholic church for example are around abuse of power, the fact that priests are seen as 'safe people', their access to children, etc. So it isnt about the religion as such but it is fine to discuss the aspects of it which can lead to safeguarding risks. I am wary of any reluctance to discuss specific issues with regard to safeguarding.

So which aspects of religion led to safeguarding risks? Sara Sharif was regarded as a safeguarding risk even before she was born.

Please explain what you actually mean by reluctance to discuss specific issues with regard to safeguarding.

BlueBelle

Anniebach that’s confusing me too ???

I totally agree Galaxy religion can and does have a big role to play in abuse of children by priests, vicars, the religious state etc etc but I don’t think it plays a part in individual cases unless of course it’s pointed out that the parents religion did have some influence… neither does the parents ethnicity, again unless that plays a part as in sacrifices
But
None of that applies in this case the mother and lover appear Caucasian and no religion is suggested, they are just baby killers and need a heavy punishment I think 10 years is way way to short a sentence for the mother
They both should have had life like the little baby

Religion didn't play a part in Sara Sharif's murder either. Her father and stepmother are violent sadists.

growstuff I did not misunderstand you O/P, you wondered what the religion of the murderer is,

I think we have now hit an all time low.

Anniebach

growstuff I did not misunderstand you O/P, you wondered what the religion of the murderer is,

I think you did misunderstand, Ab. I was momentarily taken aback by it, but, knowing the OP's usual rational approach to topics I could see the intent. I don't think it was very well expressed, though.

But then, I haven't read much of the SS thread...

Yep.
Gransnet hits an all time low.
The tragic deaths of innocent children being argued about.
Not sure how this tread is still standing.

Quote MaizieD Sat 14-Dec-24 08:40:19
Anniebach
growstuff I did not misunderstand you O/P, you wondered what the religion of the murderer is,
I think you did misunderstand, Ab. I was momentarily taken aback by it, but, knowing the OP's usual rational approach to topics I could see the intent. I don't think it was very well expressed, though.

But then, I haven't read much of the SS thread...

What was the intent ?

Vile and violent torture and abuse of small children is terrible and far too many children die each year as the result of such abuse.

The only common denominator to most (but not all) of these deaths is that one parent is not a biological parent.