Bring it on Elon!

But he's ultimately depending, even though he isn't aware of this, on the state issuing enough money into the economy. That state is the only creator of our money. It has to issue more and more over time to ensure that there is enough money to service the population as it grows. If we were still existing on the amount of money there was in the economy in, say, 1945, we'd all be very, very poor...

(As I said, banks can create money but there's never a surplus as it's all extinguished when the loan is repaid. Only state spending can create a surplus for the rich to grab because it isn't all returned via taxation)

MaizieD

P>S What Musk doesn't realise is that the less money the US government puts into the economy by paying wages, etc. the less chance he has to accumulate more wealth because there will be less money kicking around for him to lay his hands on...

He's no economist...

At the most extreme, MaizieD, people still got rich using slaves and serfs, etc.

Doesn't Musk want the whole world to be a marketplace run by rich people not governments. (I'm feeling a bit out of my depth here). Perhaps he's relying on others to pay their workers.

Sudden worry ... isn't this a bit like China. Now definitely out of my depth. A world run by rich, unseen people and proles - I've been reading too many dystopian novels! But this man and his power do worry me.

What a shame; I thought those posts were helpful. I do wonder what the transgression was.

P>S What Musk doesn't realise is that the less money the US government puts into the economy by paying wages, etc. the less chance he has to accumulate more wealth because there will be less money kicking around for him to lay his hands on...

He's no economist...

imaround

Came by to let you know that if you really do believe that Musk won't ask Reform for something in return for his $100 million, here he is telling you straight out that isn't true.

I don't Think the image that imaround posted in the quoted post will be in it, so here it is again.

I think what Musk says is very largely true. Until comparatively recently, before the introduction of universal suffrage, government has been the exclusive province of the 'upper classes'; they were wealthy themselves and had an affinity with the wealthy. So, of course government favoured wealth. It was all about protecting 'property' which includes wealth.

We now have a slightly more diverse mix of MPs/Ministers, but they mostly subscribe to the myth that wealthy people are wealth creators without who we wouldn't be able to manage.

But this is so wrong. Wealthy people dom't create wealth, they accumulate it from the less wealthy, because that is the way the financial system is set up to favour their accumulation. The quote below exemplifies this. Musk as acquired more and more businesses in order to enhance his opportunities to accumulate more wealth.

Yes, his businesses create economic activity by way of providing jobs and wages that can be spent into the economy, but the source of his 'wealth is ultimately the consumer who pays for his products. And the money the consumers use is money put into the economy by the state. Only the state can 'create' money (and banks under licence from the state, but the money they 'create' by way of loans is destroyed when the loans are repaid, so all it's doing is creating more economic activity, there is none left over to add to people's wealth)

In fact, the money that wealthy people have is state money which hasn't been returned to the state via taxation because the wealthy have favourable tax regimes and are adept at avoiding tax. So they are not only milking the consumer, they are milking the state. They are creating the deficit which everyone worries so much about. The deficit being the difference between the money the state issues and the money that is returned to it. It is peoples savings and investments, which those of us with a bit of spare cash can take advantage of, but the 'wealthy' have the lions share.

It makes me sad that revere the 'wealthy' so much when in fact all they are doing is contributing to inequality and taking money out of circulation which could be being used to improve the lives of 'ordinary' citizens.

Putting trust in the promises of the wealthy to improve 'ordinary lives' is foolish because all they're interested is accumulating as much of the public's money as they possibly can and Musk is a Grand Master at that...

Even if Elon were a successful businessman (which he isn't, he's only been successful in leveraging the money he was born into, into even more money), why on Earth would you want your government run like a business? Businesses only care about profits, government should only care about people.

The great economist, Adam Smith, was in the right of it 250 years ago

The interest of this third order, therefore, has not the same connexion with the general interest of the society, as that of the other two. Merchants and master manufacturers are, in this order, the two classes of people who commonly employ the largest capitals, and who by their wealth draw to themselves the greatest share of the public consideration. As during their whole lives they are engaged in plans and projects, they have frequently more acuteness of understanding than the greater part of country gentlemen. As their thoughts, however, are commonly exercised rather about the interest of their own particular branch of business. than about that of the society, their judgment, even when given with the greatest candour (which it has not been upon every occasion), is much more to be depended upon with regard to the former of those two objects, than with regard to the latter.

The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order, ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men, whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.

We and the people in the US should take heed of Smith😆

Sorry for such a long post...

FriedGreenTomatoes2

And whilst Kemi gives her unwanted views on sandwiches and Starmer sucks up to the EU , Farage is talking to the grown ups.

That's a laugh! Grownups? Where are they

Ohhowwelaughed

Maremia

Shinamae, thank you for admiting what many believe to be true, that Reform does NOT have a policy for the NHS.

How many times.. they say they want to swap to an insurance based model such as the French system.
Now I am sure even you would agree how they will do that would not be known until they could delve into the current workings of the dept of health.

They allude to France as an example of insurance based healthcare not using the French system.

I disagree they cant say more yet. They could give a broad brush idea of how it would affect state provision and individual provision - and the balance. Also, it's based on an incredibly high uncosted figure for health.

Chocolatelovinggran's question was perfectly clear.

Chocolatelovinggram ??????????????

So, love0c you are happy comparing our elected parliament with a never - elected man who suggested that the right party for a foreign country, in which he has no stake, is a Neo - Nazi organisation?
I understand that you dislike the ruling party, but is this a position you can defend?
Has Mr Starmer spoke of " gassing and shooting " a section of the electorate?

Maremia

Shinamae, thank you for admiting what many believe to be true, that Reform does NOT have a policy for the NHS.

How many times.. they say they want to swap to an insurance based model such as the French system.
Now I am sure even you would agree how they will do that would not be known until they could delve into the current workings of the dept of health.

Because the user was banned on the estrangement thread, for spouting the usual old tripe.

Why were 2 of droppingin's posts deleted? Is the one quoted by PoliticsNerd one of them? Because it looks perfectly innocuous.

Maremia And what is Labour's? The usual 'let us look around to see who has aspirations, has worked hard, made a success of their career, saved, invested well, not been frivolous with their money, looked after their family and never looked around themselves to see whose money they can take'! That is the group who Labour will have fund the NHS!

Thank you again, imaround, for reminding us about the views of this deeply unpleasant man who seems poised to be buying a stake in British politics.

Shinamae, thank you for admiting what many believe to be true, that Reform does NOT have a policy for the NHS.

DroppingIn

Even if Elon were a successful businessman (which he isn't, he's only been successful in leveraging the money he was born into, into even more money), why on Earth would you want your government run like a business? Businesses only care about profits, government should only care about people.

Thank you for your knowledge-based posts DroppingIn. They may be the "blooming obvious* to Americans but they need saying over here.

Is it true that Musk wants to colonise Mars? Pity for Mars. Still I don’t see where people like Musk find their energy. Perhaps Musk could encourage Trump to relocate …..problem solved.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Senate passed the children's cancer treatment as a separate bill and passed it. Thank goodness. Those researchers have been working on this funding for years, I am glad it went through.

Wyllow3, apparently our founding fathers didn't think they needed to put things in our Constitution like a felon can't be President and Speaker of the House must be an elected official. There isn't anything that says he can't be it, so they think it means he can.

The Senate will pass the bill and Biden will sign it this weekend.

Came by to let you know that if you really do believe that Musk won't ask Reform for something in return for his $100 million, here he is telling you straight out that isn't true.

I wondered what would happen tonight in the Senate, imaround. It's disgraceful what happened to the original bill.
But how could he be speaker if unelected?

Thank you for the reminder of where Musk stands politically.

For those following at home, our House has passed the spending bill after Elon tanked the first bipartisan bill that took months to negotiate. I don't have all the information yet, but it appears that the biggest loser is childhood cancer research. They stripped $190 million for it from the bill.

Musk paid more then that to buy the Presidency.

Republicans are now talking about voting Musk for Speaker of the House. They think it is a good idea to install an unelected immigrant to lead one of the chambers in our Congress. Despite the fact that the holder of this position would be 3rd on line to the Presidency and Musk, by law, can't be President because he is an immigrant.

You really do not want this man to have this much power in your countries, trust me.