Bring it on Elon!

Galaxy

I dont join in the worry about Musk because I recognise the hypocrisy of it. One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter. I also dont hold the view that the people cant think for themselves, I understand perfectly why they reject that viewpoint.

In the USA this is what was spent in the last election - absolute billions

2024*Total $15,901,068,285
Divided by general spending$10,286,346,287
Presidential contest$5,514,721,998

www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/cost-of-election.

Money clearly counts in winning elections and promoting viewpoints and the last elections falsehoods were used and passed on frequently. Yes, I think people can decide for themselves, but clearly money can buy votes from some.

I'd hope to try and keep things different in the UK

I'm not particularly in favour of very large donations here either and hope there can be ways of limiting this, but bear in mind the difference between the scale of donations (top donations in the UK for elections were 2 million Sainsbury's and 4.5 million Lubner.) and Musk's £78.000.000

Galaxy

I dont join in the worry about Musk because I recognise the hypocrisy of it. One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter. I also dont hold the view that the people cant think for themselves, I understand perfectly why they reject that viewpoint.

One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter.

... so what makes you think that I - for example - am OK with Starmer's increasingly close relationship with 'big business' and the wealthy which has now overtaken donations made by the trade unions? That's apart from the non-cash donations for things like premises, sponsorship, consultancy services, etc?

Of course, parties rely on the backing of donors, that's how it works, but it is not hypocritical to wonder why the world's richest man, who doesn't live here and never has, is allegedly going to donate an amount which might broadly equal the sum total given to all the political parties, to a political party operating as a company.

And I'm pretty sure people can think for themselves and clearly do as they iterate on here and elsewhere their reasoning.

To question their conclusions is not questioning their ability. And I have never, during my whole 'history' on GN ever claimed that those who hold a different political viewpoint to me, are incapable of thinking for themselves.

The evidence is in front of everybody's eyes.

Shinamae

growstuff

Shinamae

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

However, it's true.

In your opinion..😜

Nope. It's true.

Galaxy

There arent many threads complaining about what influenced people to vote labour (might be a lot of threads complaining about labour but that is a different thing) but there is quite a lot of analysis about what influences people to vote trump and Brexit.

I'm not playing at deflection. My questions are general - not about any particular political party.

The fact is that ideas don't spontaneously combust in people's brains. People are influenced by propaganda, whether they realise it or not. Some people challenge what they hear or are told, but some don't. People with a coherent argument are prepared (and have the data available) to defend themselves. They don't just deflect and become defensive/aggressive.

growstuff

Shinamae

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

However, it's true.

In your opinion..😜

Shinamae

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

However, it's true.

David49

Trump is finding out that he is not going to get all his own way, moderate Republicans are willing to oppose him if they think his policies are wrong, as they are doing with the current finance bill.
The problem with Musk is that £1billion is small change to him, he can throw money at any whim, it doesn’t have to make business sense to us

As David said, a Trump backed bill failed to pass the Senate.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6l9e3jq7xo

Its very complicated but what interested me in the proceedings was Musk's role.

for example:

"Musk, who Trump has tasked with identifying spending cuts by co-leading the Department of Government Efficiency ( which is not an official government department), lobbied heavily against the existing deal with dozens of posts on X.

He called it "criminal" and often referenced false statements about the bill in his posts

Musk wrote on X that any lawmaker "who votes for this outrageous spending bill deserves to be voted out in 2 years".

After Musk drummed up opposition for the spending bill, Trump and JD Vance, the incoming vice-president, dealt the final blow to Johnson's deal that evening

Who's running the show? And by lies on X?

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

There arent many threads complaining about what influenced people to vote labour (might be a lot of threads complaining about labour but that is a different thing) but there is quite a lot of analysis about what influences people to vote trump and Brexit.

I dont know growstuff but it apparently just applies to the 'poor people' influenced by rich men not the middle class influenced by the Guardian say.

Those people who vote 'differently' (not sure whom they vote 'differently' from) who influences them? I don't believe their ideas just spontaneously developed in their heads. It's quite worrying if they can't acknowledge where their ideas came from and who might be trying to influence them - and for what reason.

Galaxy

Well yes growstuff but that applies to all whether they vote reform, labour or green. There is a view that those who vote differently (the poor people) cant think for themselves and are being led by the 'rich men', but to be honest the non reform voters are just led by different influences.

I'm not disagreeing that applies to everybody. I didn't even mention Reform voters. The questions I asked were general. Why is it that some people seem to reckon they think for themselves? Where do they get their ideas from, if nobody and nothing influences them?

Sovereignty - interesting how the Brexit voters said this is why they wanted out of the EU. Here we are, living with the disaster predicted by remainers and facing the prospect of becoming something like another American state

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

I think a lot of this stuff taps into some warped belief that nobody is listening to " the little man/ woman". We've had enough/ they come here and take our jobs. I want my sovereignty, I don't want scroungers, nobody is listening to the likes of us.

Well yes growstuff but that applies to all whether they vote reform, labour or green. There is a view that those who vote differently (the poor people) cant think for themselves and are being led by the 'rich men', but to be honest the non reform voters are just led by different influences.

Trump is finding out that he is not going to get all his own way, moderate Republicans are willing to oppose him if they think his policies are wrong, as they are doing with the current finance bill.
The problem with Musk is that £1billion is small change to him, he can throw money at any whim, it doesn’t have to make business sense to us

If everybody really does think for themselves and is never influenced by social media and targeted marketing, why (if it's true) would Musk even want to give Reform so much money? Why doesn't he just go and deposit it in a black hole somewhere, if it really has no effect?

I'm curious to know how people make decisions, if they never consider any influences outside their own brains.

I dont join in the worry about Musk because I recognise the hypocrisy of it. One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter. I also dont hold the view that the people cant think for themselves, I understand perfectly why they reject that viewpoint.

Wyllow3

Musk would be attacking whoever it was. it's not the individual, its the politics of the centrist left he doesn't like. He's bothering because he wants the UK to follow USA politics and foreign policies, be the tail that the US dog wags: not pursue links with Europe: he wants to buy, own, control.

That's about the size of it.

I don't know why anyone with an enquiring mind - regardless of their political hue - isn't at all bothered by two powerful, self-regarding, egotistical rich men - one extremely so - wanting to dabble with our sovereignty.

Those who voted to leave the EU, broadly - and I say it simplistically, were fed-up with the organisation "telling us what to do" (and in some respects, they had a point).

Yet here are some of those same people welcoming 'America' who to all intents and purposes are probably going to do the same.

It doesn't make sense to me.

nanna8

Why would Musk bother? I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader. Most seem to agree with him and it isn’t improving at this stage. I think that they really need to dump Starmer and get someone else in charge. There must be someone, surely ? They have a huge majority. I have no idea who would be capable, as a lovely person pointed out, I don’t see the every day stuff and see who is who there but some of you who follow politics will have an idea. Just needs to be done before people totally desert the Labour Party.

I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader.

... an opportunity? - for what though?

In 2019 (I think) Donald Trump 'demanded' that our NHS be 'on the table' for any future trade negotiations. Presumably there are rich-pickings for American healthcare corporations. Why else?

Musk's interest is either financial or political - or both.

Whilst pro Musk / Trump enthusiasts over here will be delighted, some of us are concerned that Batman and Robin's involvement in our socio-economic life could be costly to ordinary citizen's social and economic welfare.

As for Starmer and the Labour party, well I'm not overly impressed so far, but it's still early days. But even so - why the heck does it matter to Musk which way the wind blows over here?

Hey, wouldn’t that be a turn up for the books ? At first I just thought that was a silly suggestion but on reflection I think you’ve got something there !

Well Trump seems to think he can make Canada the 51st US state, and Elon thinks that is a good idea. Maybe they want to UK too?

Quite honestly, I hope you all lean towards Europe because we may need you all to save us in the US from tyranny soon.

(This is a true fact that I present as a joke
Honestly, right now we have to laugh so as not to cry at what is coming)

nanna8

Why would Musk bother? I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader. Most seem to agree with him and it isn’t improving at this stage. I think that they really need to dump Starmer and get someone else in charge. There must be someone, surely ? They have a huge majority. I have no idea who would be capable, as a lovely person pointed out, I don’t see the every day stuff and see who is who there but some of you who follow politics will have an idea. Just needs to be done before people totally desert the Labour Party.

Musk would be attacking whoever it was. it's not the individual, its the politics of the centrist left he doesn't like. He's bothering because he wants the UK to follow USA politics and foreign policies, be the tail that the US dog wags: not pursue links with Europe: he wants to buy, own, control.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation in the Labour Party, but thats another much longer discussion outside of Musk and Farage.

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.