Waspi women cheated yet again!!

Doodledog

theworriedwell

Nandalot

I have some sympathy for the Waspi women of the 50’s particularly those born before 1953 who saw their pension age delayed. However, those born after 1953 are on the newer rate pension and get almost £2500 a year more.

Doesn't work quite like that. There is a transitional period so I was born in late 1953 but I get the old pension. Why? Because with SERPS and S2P my old pension is higher than the new pension.

Some women born after 1953 will never get the maximum of the new pension as they don't have enough NI contributions or some of their contributions were for the old "married woman's stamp."

It really is a complicated situation.

You could say this until the cows come home, theworriedwell, but it will make no difference. The myth that everyone on the old pension is worse off than everyone on the new one is persistent.

Those on the full new pension get more than those on the lower amount of the old one; but the new pension depends on full individual contributions (ie by paying 35 years of NI at the full rate, and not being contracted out by their employer), and there was no chance to increase it by paying SERPS, or to inherit contributions from husbands. Also, people on the old rate who depend entirely on the pension can qualify for Pension Credit, whereas those on the new one do not. Plus of course, the new pension can't be claimed until the age of 66, which will soon move to 67 and then 68, as opposed to 60.

Women born after 1953 who have worked over 35 years, paid the full 'stamp' and were not contracted out will have worked 6-8 extra years to get £2500 more, but anyone paying the married women's stamp, who took career breaks or who worked in the public sector or for an employer who contracted them out will not. And women born before 1953 who earned enough to pay SERPS and who inherited their husband's pension are likely to get considerably more than the new pension.

I know you are right but I do think it is important that people like you and me actually spell out the truth as there is so much misinformation out there. Maybe some people will read it and realise what the truth is.

I am a living example as I am getting more on the old pension so proof that you can get more on the old pension.

FlitterMouse I'd forgotten about inheriting SERPS/S2P. I think if DH dies before me I inherit 50% of his but I don't think he would inherit mine.

I am a living example as I am getting more on the old pension so proof that you can get more on the old pension.

Some can but a lot will be receiving under the £169.50 pw.
I receive less although I paid 34 years of contributions.

Allira

^I am a living example as I am getting more on the old pension so proof that you can get more on the old pension.^

Some can but a lot will be receiving under the £169.50 pw.
I receive less although I paid 34 years of contributions.

This is why generalisations about the old and new pensions don't make sense - there are so many variables.

Yes lots of variables, contracted in or out, paying full NI or the 'married woman's stamp' when you could retire as number of years changed or even if you earned enough to pay NI every week/month as I think some ended up with a year not counting but I might have that wrong.

As a teenager I worked in payroll dept for a while. One of my fun tasks was cutting up the stamps and sticking them on to everyone's card. I wonder if that system was always accurate. I was in a factory with hundreds of staff.

theworriedwell

As a teenager I worked in payroll dept for a while. One of my fun tasks was cutting up the stamps and sticking them on to everyone's card. I wonder if that system was always accurate. I was in a factory with hundreds of staff.

I wish I'd kept my card.

Sometimes you can take decluttering too far 😀

Were they actual stamps? Like green shield ones? I've wondered where the phrase 'married woman's stamp' came from. I don't know how my contributions were recorded (I started work in the mid 70s) but I never had a card (or don't remember having one, anyway), and I don't think computers were widespread then.

Oh💡. Was that the origin of 'collecting your cards' when you left a job? Did you get a physical card to take to the next employer? I assume the records must have been sent to HMRC (or whatever it was called then) so they could work out tax etc, and keep a tally of who had paid what.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, aren't I?

Well I must be too.
I never remember collecting my cards, in any proper job (started teaching in 1974) or any student job.

Doodledog

Were they actual stamps? Like green shield ones? I've wondered where the phrase 'married woman's stamp' came from. I don't know how my contributions were recorded (I started work in the mid 70s) but I never had a card (or don't remember having one, anyway), and I don't think computers were widespread then.

Oh💡. Was that the origin of 'collecting your cards' when you left a job? Did you get a physical card to take to the next employer? I assume the records must have been sent to HMRC (or whatever it was called then) so they could work out tax etc, and keep a tally of who had paid what.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, aren't I?

If I remember rightly, it was a green card folded in half and it was actual stamps stuck on them.

Shinamae

Doodledog

Were they actual stamps? Like green shield ones? I've wondered where the phrase 'married woman's stamp' came from. I don't know how my contributions were recorded (I started work in the mid 70s) but I never had a card (or don't remember having one, anyway), and I don't think computers were widespread then.

Oh💡. Was that the origin of 'collecting your cards' when you left a job? Did you get a physical card to take to the next employer? I assume the records must have been sent to HMRC (or whatever it was called then) so they could work out tax etc, and keep a tally of who had paid what.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, aren't I?

If I remember rightly, it was a green card folded in half and it was actual stamps stuck on them.

I remember it quite specifically because I was working at a hotel in Woolacombe and I’ve got drunk the previous night and caused some bother so the dear lady owned the hotel called Me in to her office and said I’m very very sorry to let you go but I have to give you your cards because your behaviour
And I carried on the behaviour for several more years, but I’m now been in recovery for a lot of years. 🤓

Shinamae

Doodledog

Were they actual stamps? Like green shield ones? I've wondered where the phrase 'married woman's stamp' came from. I don't know how my contributions were recorded (I started work in the mid 70s) but I never had a card (or don't remember having one, anyway), and I don't think computers were widespread then.

Oh💡. Was that the origin of 'collecting your cards' when you left a job? Did you get a physical card to take to the next employer? I assume the records must have been sent to HMRC (or whatever it was called then) so they could work out tax etc, and keep a tally of who had paid what.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, aren't I?

If I remember rightly, it was a green card folded in half and it was actual stamps stuck on them.

Then they started stamping them with a date instead.

I do wish I'd kept it (decluttering, bah humbug!)

Someone's Nationl Insurance card, now in a museum.

marketlavingtonmuseum.wordpress.com/2021/10/05/a-1965-national-insurance-card/

The card is in the museum, not the man to whom it belonged.

I used to go with my Mum to buy my Dad's stamp as he was self employed. It was an actual stamp.

I do wish I'd kept it (decluttering, bah humbug!)

Presumably you'd have had to hand it in somewhere to get a pension?

(and I'm not rising to the decluttering jokes . I'm glad of my unmessy house this Christmas, even though the visiting dog is doing his best to leave toys and other detritus all over the place 🐶)

Maybe the P60 replaced a full card? <-- back on track

Payroll was hard work back then. Apart from the stamps there was making up the actual pay. You had to fold the notes so they could check how much was in the envelope, so say they were paid £7.10s4d you would fold a fiver and two £1 so you could see them all through the little window and the same for the 10s note. Then the pennies. Oh the joy, locked in the office once the money was delivered and heaven help us if you got to the last one and had too much money left or not enouch. Inspection of every envelope. Some late nights worked.

A senior would work out how many notes and coins of each denomination you needed and I never figured out how they did it.

Doodledog

*I do wish I'd kept it (decluttering, bah humbug!)*

Presumably you'd have had to hand it in somewhere to get a pension?

(and I'm not rising to the decluttering jokes . I'm glad of my unmessy house this Christmas, even though the visiting dog is doing his best to leave toys and other detritus all over the place 🐶)

Maybe the P60 replaced a full card? <-- back on track

No, unless I'm owed something 😯

The Government must have kept their own records. I don't know why I had it, as I was never "given my cards" as notice!

No, but like the P60 weren’t people supposed to take the card with them when they changed jobs (not just being sacked )? In which case, I was assuming the pension people might want to see it to count up the stamps.

I don’t know though - I don’t think I had a card. We used to get a paper P60 in the April payslip, but everything is digital now, and there are no payslips or P60s other than online.

Doodledog
Rather off topic, but I’m sure your visiting dog is nowhere near as messy as my still
as messy as when she was a teenager darling daughter and her three children who are also extremely messy loved to distraction.

Quote from theworriedwell
Doesn't work quite like that. There is a transitional period so I was born in late 1953 but I get the old pension. Why? Because with SERPS and S2P my old pension is higher than the new pension.

This appears to be the government's reply to this complaint.

SUMMARY:
• The Government has announced that the single-tier pension will be introduced in April 2016. This means that men born on and after 6 April 1951 may qualify for a single-tier pension, as may women born on and after 6 April 1953.
• Due to unequal State Pension ages, a man born between 6 April 1951 and 5 April 1953 may receive a single-tier pension (based on an April 2016 implementation date), whereas a woman will not.
• Because of this inequality in State Pension age, the women in this cohort can draw a State Pension between 2 and 4 years sooner than a man born the same day as them. This means that they could receive between £13,000 and £26,000 in State Pension in the interval between their legislated State Pension age and the male equivalent of 65. The median valuation for this cohort is £125 per week, when assessed under the rules of the current system. When assessed using single-tier rules, the median valuation is £6 higher - £131 per week, and not the full £144 of single tier.
• Approximately 90% of the women in this cohort would receive more in lifetime state pension and other benefits under the current system than they would if they had a State Pension age of 65 and received a single-tier pension.
• The women in this cohort will retain access to aspects of the current system which are being abolished as part of the single tier reforms, with a view to ensuring that today’s workers have sufficient clarity and certainty to plan for their retirement. These legacy features include Savings Credit and derived entitlement to State Pension.
• By choosing to defer their State Pension until they reach 65, and opting to receive increments, approximately 85% of the women in this cohort could receive an initial entitlement of £144 or more.

Giving myself time to absorb what you said theworriedwell, and the government statement, it appears you are incorrect in your assertion that your pension was means-tested in any way.

Although I think we will have means-tested pensions for future claimants, we didn't have them at the time you received your Pension Benefit. Therefore, had the government done this it would have been wrong.

However, this was not the premise they worked on. If you received the state pension as per the years registered plus the SERPS you had paid for, it didn't happen. You continued to get the basic pension. Men could not get this so the government could have immediately made women wait to 65, on clarification of the equalities laws,

It could be argued that you actually got more than they needed to pay.

PoliticsNerd

Giving myself time to absorb what you said theworriedwell, and the government statement, it appears you are incorrect in your assertion that your pension was means-tested in any way.

Although I think we will have means-tested pensions for future claimants, we didn't have them at the time you received your Pension Benefit. Therefore, had the government done this it would have been wrong.

However, this was not the premise they worked on. If you received the state pension as per the years registered plus the SERPS you had paid for, it didn't happen. You continued to get the basic pension. Men could not get this so the government could have immediately made women wait to 65, on clarification of the equalities laws,

It could be argued that you actually got more than they needed to pay.

I've got no idea what you are saying. I never said my pension was means tested, I said that in the transitional period I got the higher of the two options.

I retired at 64years 9 months as I was affected by both changes to retirement age for women. When I reached pension age the DWP sent me a letter outlining how the transitional period would affect me. It stated I could get either the new single tier pension or the old pension with my SERPS/S2P included. As the second was higher that was the one I would be paid. It had nothing to do with means testing.

If I hadn't had any SERPS/S2P or not as much and the new single tier pension was the higher then I would have received that. It is how the transitional period works so you don't lose out, it isn't one answer for everyone as their entitlement to SERPS/S2P will vary.

PoliticsNerd

Quote from theworriedwell
Doesn't work quite like that. There is a transitional period so I was born in late 1953 but I get the old pension. Why? Because with SERPS and S2P my old pension is higher than the new pension.

This appears to be the government's reply to this complaint.

SUMMARY:
• The Government has announced that the single-tier pension will be introduced in April 2016. This means that men born on and after 6 April 1951 may qualify for a single-tier pension, as may women born on and after 6 April 1953.
• Due to unequal State Pension ages, a man born between 6 April 1951 and 5 April 1953 may receive a single-tier pension (based on an April 2016 implementation date), whereas a woman will not.
• Because of this inequality in State Pension age, the women in this cohort can draw a State Pension between 2 and 4 years sooner than a man born the same day as them. This means that they could receive between £13,000 and £26,000 in State Pension in the interval between their legislated State Pension age and the male equivalent of 65. The median valuation for this cohort is £125 per week, when assessed under the rules of the current system. When assessed using single-tier rules, the median valuation is £6 higher - £131 per week, and not the full £144 of single tier.
• Approximately 90% of the women in this cohort would receive more in lifetime state pension and other benefits under the current system than they would if they had a State Pension age of 65 and received a single-tier pension.
• The women in this cohort will retain access to aspects of the current system which are being abolished as part of the single tier reforms, with a view to ensuring that today’s workers have sufficient clarity and certainty to plan for their retirement. These legacy features include Savings Credit and derived entitlement to State Pension.
^• By choosing to defer their State Pension until they reach 65, and opting to receive increments, approximately 85% of the women in this cohort could receive an initial entitlement of £144 or more.^

Just to clarify it wasn't a complaint. The piece you have quoted doesn't apply to me as I was born after April 1953.

"Thank you for clarifying your posts theworriedwell!

I'm curious to know more about your perspective—could you share what your thoughts are on the governments dealing with this issue? Do you have any concerns or disagreements with the current stage of pension benefit payments?