Reform. 140,748 members and counting. The Tories are well and truly in trouble!

I haven’t joined Reform HPQ. I don’t have much disposable income to be honest.
That said, I’ll support them by putting my ‘X’ when I’m in a ballot box any time I can.

Casdon

Wyllow3

Casdon

We’ll see, won’t we. Neither of them are backward at coming forward with their viewpoints.

Getting to feel like something in the playground I'm afraid.

I suspect you’re right - for once I don’t feel invested though, so it will be good to watch from a dispassionate perspective!

Me too actually.
The proverbial storm in a teacup.

MayBee70

Sick to death with a lot of the people on this forum….

And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too!

The proverbial storm in a teacup.

Two politicians having a spat.
Nothing new!

MayBee70

Shinamae

MayBee70

Shinamae

Casdon

Any politician can promise the world when not in power. When the manifestos are published before an election is when you know what they are actually planning to deliver on.

Starmer and co promised rather a lot and have reneged on a lot of it
Liars and cheats….

Didn’t the Conservatives government actually remove existing incentives/grants to install solar power? ( along with removing gas storage facilities which made us vulnerable to international events).

Your point being?

Can’t be bothered to reply to be honest. I hope you enjoy the brave new world that Reform will give you.

Really? you quoted me. I just asked for clarification of your point…

MayBee70

Sick to death with a lot of the people on this forum….

Why? Because we don’t agree with your point of view.?

Shinamae

MayBee70

Shinamae

Casdon

Any politician can promise the world when not in power. When the manifestos are published before an election is when you know what they are actually planning to deliver on.

Starmer and co promised rather a lot and have reneged on a lot of it
Liars and cheats….

Didn’t the Conservatives government actually remove existing incentives/grants to install solar power? ( along with removing gas storage facilities which made us vulnerable to international events).

Your point being?

I would have thought it's obvious what the point is.

Shinamae

MayBee70

Sick to death with a lot of the people on this forum….

Why? Because we don’t agree with your point of view.?

Because it saddens me to see so many people supporting a political company/party that doesn’t seem to have any policies other than destroying everything I find good and decent about my country. And also seem to revere an American politician who is not just a convicted felon but a misogynistic racist.

One antidote to Reform is for the Conservative Party to re establish its core values and policies. And in a few months, think about its leadership…again. Reform doesn’t seem troubled by the same problems and as a startup will have more appeal to the disillusioned masses. The disillusioned masses seem to be gathering more pace than any other group.

I think you’re right ronib. Create a vacuum and something will fill it.

I watch GB news panel discussions, they are always clarifying they invited Kemi Badenoch or various Tory MPs etc on but didn't hear back, or the invitation was declined. So KB doesn't want to go on, but thinks that Farage shouldn't either? That's not how it works …. What price free speech?

The Tories obsession with right wing policies made such a mess of the last 10yrs that everyone voted for “change”, not just Labour. Now Labour has spelt out how bad the economy is most don’t like the policies needed for the economy to recover.

Reform is a very attractive concept but it doesn’t change the reality of what needs changing, the UK is not earning the income needed to pay for the services we want. The solution is the same more revenue or less services, we hope that increasing growth will give more revenue. Farage seems to be taking the opposite line reducing free services, providing a more basic support system which those that can afford to, can add.
Think of the US system or most other nations that have a much less generous benefit system, that will prove attractive to many voters.

I agree with MayBee’s comments above, as well as seeing some good points in David49’s post.

My concern is the dismissal of collective responsibility for society. So many seem to find the disappearance of decent public services as the fault of people working in them, rather than the way they’ve been deliberately run down. The level of anger directed to the government because it’s promised ‘change’ isn’t happening quickly enough is ridiculous

Anyone concerned about the highest ever numbers of civil servants? The number increased exponentially to cope with the Covid crisis apparently and now needs culling back. Perhaps this will be tackled by Labour. Maybe ‘natural wastage’ whereby jobs are not replaced following retirement etc.

David49

The Tories obsession with right wing policies made such a mess of the last 10yrs that everyone voted for “change”, not just Labour. Now Labour has spelt out how bad the economy is most don’t like the policies needed for the economy to recover.

Reform is a very attractive concept but it doesn’t change the reality of what needs changing, the UK is not earning the income needed to pay for the services we want. The solution is the same more revenue or less services, we hope that increasing growth will give more revenue. Farage seems to be taking the opposite line reducing free services, providing a more basic support system which those that can afford to, can add.
Think of the US system or most other nations that have a much less generous benefit system, that will prove attractive to many voters.

You're conflating services with benefits, which aren't the same at all.

ronib

One antidote to Reform is for the Conservative Party to re establish its core values and policies. And in a few months, think about its leadership…again. Reform doesn’t seem troubled by the same problems and as a startup will have more appeal to the disillusioned masses. The disillusioned masses seem to be gathering more pace than any other group.

I agree with you ronib. If I were a 'traditional' Tory, I would be having 'behind the scenes' meetings now to discuss how this could be done.

Iam64

I agree with MayBee’s comments above, as well as seeing some good points in David49’s post.

My concern is the dismissal of collective responsibility for society. So many seem to find the disappearance of decent public services as the fault of people working in them, rather than the way they’ve been deliberately run down. The level of anger directed to the government because it’s promised ‘change’ isn’t happening quickly enough is ridiculous

I agree. Maybe some self reflection is needed. How many posters would have managed this past year with a dwindling State Pension, cut backs on Universal Credit, there seems to be no Reform policy in how these would be paid for. A very much reduced NHS, paying for private medical and dentistry. Remember any insurance backed scheme will be more costly the older you become. Ok for those of us who are healthy and take no medication.
How many of us are willing to pay for private services such as rubbish collection, street cleaning and lighting?
I may be wrong, but I do not see anything published by Reform that would suggest that public and health service would not be reduced. Oh yes, reduction in tax in order to provide less.

J52

Iam64

I agree with MayBee’s comments above, as well as seeing some good points in David49’s post.

My concern is the dismissal of collective responsibility for society. So many seem to find the disappearance of decent public services as the fault of people working in them, rather than the way they’ve been deliberately run down. The level of anger directed to the government because it’s promised ‘change’ isn’t happening quickly enough is ridiculous

I agree. Maybe some self reflection is needed. How many posters would have managed this past year with a dwindling State Pension, cut backs on Universal Credit, there seems to be no Reform policy in how these would be paid for. A very much reduced NHS, paying for private medical and dentistry. Remember any insurance backed scheme will be more costly the older you become. Ok for those of us who are healthy and take no medication.
How many of us are willing to pay for private services such as rubbish collection, street cleaning and lighting?
I may be wrong, but I do not see anything published by Reform that would suggest that public and health service would not be reduced. Oh yes, reduction in tax in order to provide less.

Law enforcement should be included in your list of services. Would that be cut too with Reform?

we hope that increasing growth will give more revenue

We do.
But unfortunately growth has flatlined and there is a possibility that we might drop into recession in the next quarter or two.
Unfortunately the government’s recent budget has made this more likely rather than less likely.
Increasing the cost of employing people doesn’t help growth and is more likely to cause a recession.
In order to grow, we need more people, not fewer people, in employment.

Angela Rayner also turns down interviews on GB News. It doesn’t seem to be a very comfortable platform for anyone in the firing line. Meanwhile Reform is using GB News to its advantage and will continue to increase its support.

GB News is not a mainstream channel, and has a very clear agenda, I don’t understand why it surprises anybody that politicians other than those whose agenda it supports don’t think it’s worth the candle to appear on it. It attracts about 1% of the total live viewing audience for one thing. This article from the Financial Times is good to understand what’s happening - a few months out of date, but still relevant.
www.ft.com/content/31600209-c8dc-4cf9-bcf3-9afdc10781ff

Because it saddens me to see so many people supporting a political company/party that doesn’t seem to have any policies other than destroying everything I find good and decent about my country. And also seem to revere an American politician who is not just a convicted felon but a misogynistic racist

👏👏👏I agree Maybe.

I’ve read Reform UK PLC’s ‘contract’ and it does not paint a picture of a country that I want to live in; a country that I currently love.

Casdon, its behind a paywall. If you have access can you quote some bits?

I wholeheartedly agree with you Maybe, I too find it depressing.

GB News is nothing but a propaganda machine, preaching to the converted.

The Times this morning reports.. That the first significant seat-by-seat analysis since the general election forecasts that, if another poll were held today, Labour would lose its majority and nearly 200 of the seats it won in July . The party, which won 411 seats in what critics called a “loveless landslide”, would lose 87 seats to the Conservatives, 67 to Reform UK and 26 to the Scottish National Party. Labour’s “red wall” gains would be almost entirely reversed, with Reform, rather than the Conservatives, as the main beneficiaries.
Hung parliament, that I can believe atm, but who knows what the next 5 years will bring?

A week is a long time in politics, five year is a lifetime ( or, perhaps, life sentence)