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Welsh children won’t be limited in future though Allira

But they have been for years.
Welsh should not be compulsory up to GCSE level. It limits the choices pupils can make at 14.

Allira

Casdon

Welsh children won’t be limited in future though Allira, I don’t understand why they would be constrained to only work in Wales as they will have three languages? There are large cross border work flows with England, so I don’t think in reality it’s a major concern.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the necessity to speak Welsh. I think for anybody who is in a role where others in the workplace routinely speak in Welsh, particularly customers or clients, where they need to read things written only in Welsh, or where meetings are routinely held in Welsh, it’s essential. If none of those conditions exist, it is not necessary.

How three languages?

Will they have to take English, Welsh and a foreign language at GCSE level?
At present, and for the past very many years, they have been allowed to drop a language after age 14 but Welsh has been compulsory which means many dropped a foreign language.

No, my understanding is that both Welsh and a foreign language are compulsory up to the end of year 9. So, the same requirement as England for the foreign language. I don’t think it has ever been compulsory in the UK to study a foreign language up to GCSE level?

I should have said, of course Welsh isn’t a foreign language in Wales.

My DC had to.

Casdon

I should have said, of course Welsh isn’t a foreign language in Wales.

Well I know thst.

I was referring to French, German, Spanish, Mandarin, Portuguese, Dutch, etc.

What I meant was, that’s why Welsh is compulsory in Welsh schools, because it’s not a foreign language, it’s like learning the English Language.

Nobody speaks Welsh outside of Wales with the exception of some inPatagonia😄
If anyone in Wales had Welsh as a first language then they must be very old.
Everyone in Wales speaks and understands English and tho it’s nice to keep Welsh going as a language it should never be taken up to GCSE level unless the pupils want it IMO.

I can tell you don’t live in Wales Oreo. At the last count 18% of the population of Wales were native Welsh speakers. My SiL and family are.

I agree that it should be a choice after 14 Oreo.

If a pupil wanted to take two foreign languages at GCSE level it would be possible in England but not in Wales because the curriculum could not accommodate that.

I don’t think it has ever been compulsory in the UK to study a foreign language up to GCSE level?
I don't know the answer either, but I know friends at the grammar school studied a foreign language for 5 years (1970s) and took an exam at the end. I was at a comprehensive and most pupils had dropped their language learning after 2 or 3 years. Only a small minority of more able pupils (that's me!!) continued, and for some strange reason I had the opportunity to study both French and German from age 11 and into the 6th form.

We had to take French and Lstin.

Now, some might say Latin is about as useful as Welsh but in fact it offers a good foundation for learning the Romance languages.

Allira

I agree that it should be a choice after 14 Oreo.

If a pupil wanted to take two foreign languages at GCSE level it would be possible in England but not in Wales because the curriculum could not accommodate that.

It is what it is though. It’s something which isn’t going to change, and there would be a huge backlash from the Welsh about the Welsh identity being ignored by the English if it was suggested- the battle is still going on after 800 years. I’m not a native Welsh speaker by the way, but I understand how important the Welsh language is, and why its use is promoted here.

Don't get me wrong, I do think the Welsh language is important. However, I think making two languages (English and Welsh) compulsory at GCSE level does restrict opportunities for Welsh pupils.

As English is a language which is used and understood in many countries, it should still be compulsory and more and more foreign students are keen to learn English to increase their career opportunities.

To bring us back to the point of the thread (or near it), Welsh is not a compulsory subject in private schools in Wales, of course, so those pupils who might have to transfer to state schools because of the added burden of VAT will be disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

It is what it is, is the worst excuse for doing something or allowing something that disadvantages some to continue.
I’m pro children being taught Welsh, but when it gets to an age where it stops them learning a language that will be more useful worldwide, is it right?

They already have procedures.

"So, coming from a non-Welsh speaking background is absolutely normal and the curriculum is designed with that in mind. Welsh-medium schools do not expect that children speak Welsh when they start but will help those children to become fluent in Welsh before the end of their first year."

www.monmouthshire.gov.uk/app/uploads/2024/03/Frequently-asked-Questions.pdf

Mollygo

It is what it is, is the worst excuse for doing something or allowing something that disadvantages some to continue.
I’m pro children being taught Welsh, but when it gets to an age where it stops them learning a language that will be more useful worldwide, is it right?

It is what it is from being pushed and pushed by those politicians in Wales who are ideologically obsessed about the Welsh language.There’s no massive need for anyone to speak it unless they want to learn it.

Why is it a disadvantage? Every child in Wales studies a second language to GCSE level, which children don’t have to in England. Being able to speak two languages, whatever they are demonstrates an ability to learn languages. Both my children did Welsh GCSE, and did 8 other GCSEs, so neither they nor I feel they were disadvantaged. It’s very easy for English people to criticise from the outside.

The whole point is Oreo that Welsh people do want to learn Welsh, and they want their children to learn it too. There’s a very high uptake of Welsh language adult courses.

I really don’t think that English people understand that the Welsh are proud of their unique language and culture, why do you feel you have to treat us like children and tell us what we should do?

If they want to learn it that’s fine, but surely not to the degree that it’s considered more important than learning useful languages spoken in many countries such as French, Spanish and German.Speaking Welsh isn’t useful anywhere.English is.
Welsh need not be compulsory up to GCSE level at all.
It’s good to be proud of your own culture and language but in proportion, knowing that it’s only useful within Wales and quite often it seems for the reason of ticking boxes with Welsh employers.

If the expectation is that children will become fluent in spoken Welsh in a couple of years then this could easily be achieved using the direct method for language learning. If however the more intricate skills of reading and writing in the language are also being insisted upon, then I agree that learning a European language would actually be of more benefit.

I think it's up to people who live and work in Wales to decide.
A language is more than its usefulness, its also opening the door to that culture, music, literature, and so on.

This is not to exclude learning further languages, sadly not enough children in the UK take them to GCSE anymore.

My two grandchildren are taking Welsh GCSE, and learning German and Spanish respectively to GCSE level at the local state school. My granddaughter has a school trip to Patagonia in 2026 , to the Welsh community, and attend their school for a couple of days as well as seeing the country.

Casdon

Why is it a disadvantage? Every child in Wales studies a second language to GCSE level, which children don’t have to in England. Being able to speak two languages, whatever they are demonstrates an ability to learn languages. Both my children did Welsh GCSE, and did 8 other GCSEs, so neither they nor I feel they were disadvantaged. It’s very easy for English people to criticise from the outside.

Wales is not populated by just people of Welsh heritage.

It's good to be proud of culture and traditions and to encourage the learning of old languages before they are in danger of being lost. I have friends my sge who have started learning Welsh, one is now fluent.
However, forcing it on people as a first language, which is what several public bodies in Wales do, is wrong.

I don't agree with limiting children's choices either.

However, forcing it on people as a first language, which is what several public bodies in Wales do, is wrong

A friend retired to North Wales. Sold up from Yorkshire and bought a bungalow there. Says it drives her to distraction when she needs to phone any government department or 111 and has to listen to everything in Welsh first before English. Says it’s drives her nuts and to be honest most of her Welsh friends too, who are not fluent. I suspect only a very tiny minority are so the tail’s wagging the dog here.