Cheer up, Bridget, your lucky day is nigh!

Don't get me wrong, I do think the Welsh language is important. However, I think making two languages (English and Welsh) compulsory at GCSE level does restrict opportunities for Welsh pupils.

As English is a language which is used and understood in many countries, it should still be compulsory and more and more foreign students are keen to learn English to increase their career opportunities.

Allira

I agree that it should be a choice after 14 Oreo.

If a pupil wanted to take two foreign languages at GCSE level it would be possible in England but not in Wales because the curriculum could not accommodate that.

It is what it is though. It’s something which isn’t going to change, and there would be a huge backlash from the Welsh about the Welsh identity being ignored by the English if it was suggested- the battle is still going on after 800 years. I’m not a native Welsh speaker by the way, but I understand how important the Welsh language is, and why its use is promoted here.

We had to take French and Lstin.

Now, some might say Latin is about as useful as Welsh but in fact it offers a good foundation for learning the Romance languages.

I don’t think it has ever been compulsory in the UK to study a foreign language up to GCSE level?
I don't know the answer either, but I know friends at the grammar school studied a foreign language for 5 years (1970s) and took an exam at the end. I was at a comprehensive and most pupils had dropped their language learning after 2 or 3 years. Only a small minority of more able pupils (that's me!!) continued, and for some strange reason I had the opportunity to study both French and German from age 11 and into the 6th form.

I agree that it should be a choice after 14 Oreo.

If a pupil wanted to take two foreign languages at GCSE level it would be possible in England but not in Wales because the curriculum could not accommodate that.

I can tell you don’t live in Wales Oreo. At the last count 18% of the population of Wales were native Welsh speakers. My SiL and family are.

Nobody speaks Welsh outside of Wales with the exception of some inPatagonia😄
If anyone in Wales had Welsh as a first language then they must be very old.
Everyone in Wales speaks and understands English and tho it’s nice to keep Welsh going as a language it should never be taken up to GCSE level unless the pupils want it IMO.

What I meant was, that’s why Welsh is compulsory in Welsh schools, because it’s not a foreign language, it’s like learning the English Language.

Casdon

I should have said, of course Welsh isn’t a foreign language in Wales.

Well I know thst.

I was referring to French, German, Spanish, Mandarin, Portuguese, Dutch, etc.

My DC had to.

I should have said, of course Welsh isn’t a foreign language in Wales.

Allira

Casdon

Welsh children won’t be limited in future though Allira, I don’t understand why they would be constrained to only work in Wales as they will have three languages? There are large cross border work flows with England, so I don’t think in reality it’s a major concern.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the necessity to speak Welsh. I think for anybody who is in a role where others in the workplace routinely speak in Welsh, particularly customers or clients, where they need to read things written only in Welsh, or where meetings are routinely held in Welsh, it’s essential. If none of those conditions exist, it is not necessary.

How three languages?

Will they have to take English, Welsh and a foreign language at GCSE level?
At present, and for the past very many years, they have been allowed to drop a language after age 14 but Welsh has been compulsory which means many dropped a foreign language.

No, my understanding is that both Welsh and a foreign language are compulsory up to the end of year 9. So, the same requirement as England for the foreign language. I don’t think it has ever been compulsory in the UK to study a foreign language up to GCSE level?

Welsh children won’t be limited in future though Allira

But they have been for years.
Welsh should not be compulsory up to GCSE level. It limits the choices pupils can make at 14.

MaizieD

Allira

MaizieD

escaped

I agree Casdon that state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc. It also needs specialist facilities to take children with exceptional talents to the highest level, and this requires real estate and state of the art premises. Most parents at private schools won't want to make their children poorer in their sporting and cultural life, so they will pay more knowing that their children are receiving the best of the best that can never be equalled by a state school.

I don't intend to join this utterly pointless discussion any further but I've read most of the posts and if vegansrock's post was deemed to be insulting to private school pupils I feel that this one is the other side of the coin and is extremely insulting to state school teachers and to state schools which provide an excellent all round education.

I'm surprised that none of the teachers or former teachers posting on here has pulled escaped up on it.

There was absolutely nothing in escaped's posts which could see which criticised teachers in the state system.

If it was a criticism of the state system then it would be blaming successive governments in eroding those facilities which we had come to expect for our own DC - ie good sports facilities, music lessons etc which may be lacking now.

state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc.

And what does this mean, then? No teachers in the state system are competent to teach to the highest level in any discipline? No state school teachers can take children with exceptional talents to the highest level?

Good Lord. What utter arrogance and entitlement...

So you are saying the Tories did not neglect these areas in education then?


I must have been in a parallel universe.

There are large cross border work flows with England, so I don’t think in reality it’s a major concern.

I know. But it has been of such concern that this new initiative has ad to be introduced.

Casdon

Welsh children won’t be limited in future though Allira, I don’t understand why they would be constrained to only work in Wales as they will have three languages? There are large cross border work flows with England, so I don’t think in reality it’s a major concern.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the necessity to speak Welsh. I think for anybody who is in a role where others in the workplace routinely speak in Welsh, particularly customers or clients, where they need to read things written only in Welsh, or where meetings are routinely held in Welsh, it’s essential. If none of those conditions exist, it is not necessary.

How three languages?

Will they have to take English, Welsh and a foreign language at GCSE level?
At present, and for the past very many years, they have been allowed to drop a language after age 14 but Welsh has been compulsory which means many dropped a foreign language.

Allira

MaizieD

escaped

I agree Casdon that state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc. It also needs specialist facilities to take children with exceptional talents to the highest level, and this requires real estate and state of the art premises. Most parents at private schools won't want to make their children poorer in their sporting and cultural life, so they will pay more knowing that their children are receiving the best of the best that can never be equalled by a state school.

I don't intend to join this utterly pointless discussion any further but I've read most of the posts and if vegansrock's post was deemed to be insulting to private school pupils I feel that this one is the other side of the coin and is extremely insulting to state school teachers and to state schools which provide an excellent all round education.

I'm surprised that none of the teachers or former teachers posting on here has pulled escaped up on it.

There was absolutely nothing in escaped's posts which could see which criticised teachers in the state system.

If it was a criticism of the state system then it would be blaming successive governments in eroding those facilities which we had come to expect for our own DC - ie good sports facilities, music lessons etc which may be lacking now.

state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc.

And what does this mean, then? No teachers in the state system are competent to teach to the highest level in any discipline? No state school teachers can take children with exceptional talents to the highest level?

Good Lord. What utter arrogance and entitlement...

I agree. It's still the first language of some Welsh people.

Welsh children won’t be limited in future though Allira, I don’t understand why they would be constrained to only work in Wales as they will have three languages? There are large cross border work flows with England, so I don’t think in reality it’s a major concern.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the necessity to speak Welsh. I think for anybody who is in a role where others in the workplace routinely speak in Welsh, particularly customers or clients, where they need to read things written only in Welsh, or where meetings are routinely held in Welsh, it’s essential. If none of those conditions exist, it is not necessary.

We must never let these languages die.

I agree Sago
Cornish is an example but is being revived, although many Cornish words are estimates of wat they were.

However, neither must we limit the chances of Welsh children to working in Wales when there is a world of opportunity if they are given a level playing field on which to compete.

Is it discrimination also to deny non-Welsh speakers the opportunity to compete for jobs in Wales too?
I remember DH applying for a temporary job which was not customer-facing. He did well at interview but the final question was "Do you speak Welsh". When he said no, the interview was terminated.

My late father spoke Gaeilge as his first language and English as his second, this was not unusual for the time but would have held him back hugely, the Christian Brothers made sure he spoke English fluently!

We must never let these languages die.

That's interesting - the Welsh curriculum and the language.
I went to school and taught in Brittany at a time when, unlike other Celtic languages, Breton had, and still has, no official status. However, in more recent years an increasing number of children are attending bilingual Breton schools.
Breton road signs and signage and are not allowed in Brittany without the French words alongside.

Benighted? Sorry, I meant being taught

"Mae'n ddrwg gyda fi"
😁

The new Welsh curriculum includes learning international languages.
www.gov.wales/global-futures-plan-improve-and-promote-international-languages-wales-2022-2025-html
Welsh children will be multilingual, so not disadvantaged by learning Welsh (and native Welsh speakers learning English) - in fact it will be an advantage that they can, because it is required for a lot of jobs here in Wales. I wasn’t in favour of Welsh benighted to the exclusion of other languages, but that will not happen now.