Who are we fighting?

I just think the general idea is to show students that lots of different kinds of arts activities are valid as each other and there is something for everyone.

It belongs to whole communities. Not just that, but that there are connections between different art forms. What matters most is that pupils feel engaged, its something for them?

How schools manage that is up to them whether its in school via media representations or visits out.

Lee Elliot Major is Britain’s first Professor of Social Mobility, based at the University of Exeter. He was previously Chief Executive of the Sutton Trust, the UK’s leading social mobility foundation.

His work is dedicated to improving the lives of children and young people from under-resourced or poorer backgrounds. He works closely with school and university leaders, global employers and Governments in the UK and across the world to develop practical ways of improving educational and life prospects.

Well, Professor Major, do you not think that introducing such subjects as grime and rap to children's cultural education is
rather patronising and akin to teaching Granny to suck eggs?

I'm quite sure my teenage DGC could give me a cultural lesson on grime, although they were quite startled to hear me making up my own rap 'song' recently 😁

Aha
Stormy and DizzieRascal? 🎶 🎵

I guess grime, rap and brass bands could be invited into a school, but the Rosetta Stone could hardly be transported to a setting, alongside all the other artefacts! They're not comparable.

I've sort of heard of grime, but I lost the plot when young DD2 used to go on about garage, so I can't help anyone there.

Yes, the alongside is a bit strange, because either that would that nean doubling the time spent OUT of the classroom on visits then? Or halving the time going to high-brow places? So in effect, cutting back on the latter!

I do like a brass band and there are several local ones with young members.

JaneJudge

I agree with David

I'm not sure how horticulture, agriculture courses would work without Latin.There must be plenty of other subjects which require some grasp of Latin but those came to mind first

I think the amount of Latin needed for horticulture is minimal and quite easy to learn if it is in regular use. It's mainly plant names and genus's

When I was at catering college we had to learn menu French and kitchen French. Most of the students hadn't learned French in school but they picked up what they needed.

We were supposed to learn Latin at school, but it was poorly taught and had no relevance to most of us. I suspect it's reasonable simple to learn if you need it for a career, say in ancient and mediaeval history...

Well, I am culturally bereft as I don't know what grime is.
Apart from dirt of course, and it reminds me of Tom, the child in the Water Babies who was a grimy chimney sweep.

The full quote was as follows:

"Prof Major said that alongside school trips to visit “high-art forms”, children should be taught about “other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music or brass bands and community choirs”

I note the alongside in the full quote.

I do think it's a bit strange that he's advising the teaching of youth culture to young people. they could probably teach him a thing or two... Or is rap and grime now the province of older people?

I think that most areas where brass bands were an established part of their culture still have their brass bands and still have young people joining them... We certainly do in my part of the NE.

I think that the prof. might be a bit out of touch...

Oops, my phone cut off the brass bands and community choir bit!

Good point about childrens' phones providing all these genres Allira. Personally I wouldn't place live theatre and museum artefacts in the same category as grime and rap etc. but what do I know?

Allira
alongside school trips to visit high-art forms, children should be taught about other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music

At the risk of sounding elitist - what a load of rap. 👏👏

But let’s get this straight. Before they can experience all these other cultural activities, they need to be toilet trained and that now appears to be a school job.

Allira

^alongside school trips to visit high-art forms, children should be taught about other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music^

At the risk of sounding elitist - what a load of rap.

Children of all backgrounds will know about rap music, Tik Tok and other such low-brow "culture" because they've all got phones.

Not so many children will have access to theatres, museums, galleries and all should be given the opportunity to experience these.

The full quote was as follows:

"Prof Major said that alongside school trips to visit “high-art forms”, children should be taught about “other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music or brass bands and community choirs”

JaneJudge

I agree with David

I'm not sure how horticulture, agriculture courses would work without Latin.There must be plenty of other subjects which require some grasp of Latin but those came to mind first

You used to need Latin if you were going to medical school but I'm not sure if that is the case now.

alongside school trips to visit high-art forms, children should be taught about other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music

At the risk of sounding elitist - what a load of rap.

Children of all backgrounds will know about rap music, Tik Tok and other such low-brow "culture" because they've all got phones.

Not so many children will have access to theatres, museums, galleries and all should be given the opportunity to experience these.

David49

The problem is that the education system is skewed to university which suits the top 25% of pupils the rest are left behind they learn very little about work and earning their living when they leave school.
A large number don’t have any realistic idea how they are going to pay the rent or living as an adult, they should bring back practical skills in schools, proper Domestic Science, Woodwork, Metalwork, Electronics etc, not skim over many topics as they do today
Children need to be inspired, shown that they can achieve a practical task, if they are not academic many have no ambition to do anything.

Why, then, is there a competition for courses teaching such subjects at FE colleges?
Is it because there is not enough availability of colleges offering these subjects?

Perhaps more such technical and practical courses are needed which will lead to qualifications in skills which the country needs.

OK, in the interests of accuracy, and because if I'm wrong on GN, I'll say I am : the words I read came from a professor in my neck of the woods at Exeter University. He has been advising the Labour Government on its new education strategy which I have been following. Apologies, it's not Keir Starmer's words, but here's what his close advisor said ......

"Cultural initiatives in schools have prioritised middle-class pursuits – visits to museums, theatres and high-brow art galleries."

He continues, "alongside school trips to visit high-art forms, children should be taught about other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music or brass bands."

So there it is, from He who advises The Department of Education's Schools Strategy, and who gives his input on the upcoming review of education.

Apologies again, but watch this space for politicians' comments about making the curriculum more "relevant" by "cutting down on theatre and museum trips".

David49

I think Starmer is probably the most realistic PM we have had for many years, he knows that government has to find more income to pay for the services and benefits we enjoy.

The population don’t like being told they need to pay more, so his poll rating has fallen.

Nice idea, but his poll rating has fallen, first because he and a number of his senior ministers were found to be free loading, and secondly for the cack handed way they dealt with WFA, note I say how they dealt with it, not that they did it. I think there was broad agreement across all groups, including those likely to be most affected that WFA for higher income groups was indefensible, but the way it was suddenly announced and implemented, causing real hardship for those whose incomes were just over the PC level, showed stupudity at the highest level.

Our enemy is our government….

It is hard to get to the bottom of the long quotes, but as far as I can make out it was asking where is the evidence/origins of the claim that Starmer wants to get rid of British History and want to ban visits to museums I'd still like to know. (it was Latin as well, but we've covered that).

Politicians seem to feel the need to say something even if it is trite or purile. Just ignore them.

Monica, I'm sure you couldn't quote more than a couple of posts previously

wibblywobblywobblebottom

That is the most idiotic comment I've read for a long long time. And you're still alive. Shame. Protecting the NHS meant more than banging saucepan lids you witless moron. I should know, I worked for the NHS.

which comment?

Please can we bring an end to these huge chains of quotes.

They are ridiculous and unnecessary nd my eyes have glazed over scrolling through the quotes before I reach the one or two lines the poster had added.

You are already on a thread, there is no need to recreate it insode it

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

I heard snippets of a discussion on GB news.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-decision-to-axe-latin-lessons-is-an-act-of-cultural-vandalism/

How many schools teach latin these days? I think it's been effectively axed for decades...

What other absurdities can the Spectator and GB News (aren't they owned/funded by the same person?) find to get their underwear knotted about, I wonder...

Nothing to stop private schools still teaching it, of course...
Nothing to stop a state school teaching it, either, if they have the resources and the will to do it.

Now, where did the nonsense about museums and art galleries come from?

So that I know for now and another time, which news sources do you reply on please, MaizieD.

The New Statesman, the Financial Tmes, the Guardian, social media (X & Bluesky), By-Line Times (various) random media pieces I see links to that look to be interesting. Nothing paywalled unless I can get round it without having to sign up for anything at all.. some blogs on economics and government, The ether...

Thanks.

I did wonder if the Guardian is unallowed nowadays.
Surprised X is on the list too.