All is not well in the world of Reform

Vintage 49 for sure, in my school days the biggest memory of Macmillan I have is the Christine Keeler affair and all the schoolboy sniggering about that.
The height of the Cold War, Kennedy dead, Mao exterminating millions in China, Vietnam war raging, UK politics was pretty tame by comparison

Sterling exchange rate was around £2.50, it’s been all downhill since then, “You’ve never had it so good” was the Tory opinion.
Then Wilson was elected, inflation reached 25%, interest rates 16%. The only bright spot since then was North Sea Oil that offset the damage Thatcher did.

So I do have a fondness for the old system not the economy we have today

Sorry I dont go back as far a “Super Mac”,

Good Lord, David. I thought the 49 in your username was your birth year. It can't be if you don't go back as far as Super Mac.

to me a mixed economy is a balance of service and manufacturing

I've only ever seen the term used very specifically to describe the mix of private and public sector provision of goods and services consequent on Labour's nationalisation programme post WW2.

A mix which tory governments seemingly concurred with (so PMs Eden, MacMillan, Douglas Home, Heath, have I missed any?) until Thatcher arrived with the wrecking ball in 1979. And the insistence that the UK could do absolutely fine without any heavy industry because our financial services sector was gong to provide all the jobs and income we needed.

It worked pretty well on the whole and I would very much like to return to a better mix of public and private provision.

Dickens

David49

Does anyone know what “mixed economy” means

... sometimes called The Middle Way.

But Google will help.

Try 'googling' Harold Macmillan / mixed economy.

Basically it's a blend of Capitalism and Socialism. Or, the 'Nordic' model.

But you knew that I think.

Sorry I dont go back as far a “Super Mac”, to me a mixed economy is a balance of service and manufacturing, since Macmillans time we import a lot more, export a lot less and try to pay ourselves a much higher standard of living. We’ve become a predominantly service economy, what manufacturing we do have is owned by foreigners

We learn from the quote in the OP that the group of Councillors has criticized Reform for being managed in an "increasingly autocratic manner" and noted that it "has lost its sense of direction" since Farage took over as leader last June. This observation raises an interesting question: why does anyone find this surprising?

Donald Trump has openly admired Vladimir Putin and seems intent on adopting a similar approach to governance in the United States. There are already signs of this, exemplified by Trump's rhetoric surrounding countries with valuable resources, such as his controversial remarks about Canada and Greenland.

In a parallel vein, Farage admires Trump and is likely to emulate his leadership style in the UK, driven by a focus on wealth accumulation. This trend indicates that the ideology shaping the actions of these leaders is fundamentally tied to personal enrichment.

Unfortunately, for those who believe that aligning themselves with such figures will guarantee their own financial success, recent developments in America illustrate the potential pitfalls. Many Trump supporters are now expressing discomfort with their financial situations, suggesting that the promise of shared prosperity may not be as close at hand as they hoped.

To summarise, the trajectory of leadership under Farage may not only reflect an autocratic style but also highlight the dangers of prioritising personal wealth over the collective good.

David49

Does anyone know what “mixed economy” means

... sometimes called The Middle Way.

But Google will help.

Try 'googling' Harold Macmillan / mixed economy.

Basically it's a blend of Capitalism and Socialism. Or, the 'Nordic' model.

But you knew that I think.

Does anyone know what “mixed economy” means

... meant to say, the drop was "unexpected" and it won't make much difference to us, now - but it will give RR some wriggle room ???

ronib

Target for inflation is 2 percent btw…. Not quite out of the woods.
Are consumers simply spending less? I am happy with my Delia Smith’s very tasty soup recipes for example…. Very good value and without too much vat!

Are consumers simply spending less?

I think they were.

But Christmas always skews the stats.

January and February will be the deciding months?

Doodledog

Toryism isn’t the only way. Why not give the government a chance to carry out their plans? Inflation as fallen today - a small amount, granted, but a fall. I’ve just got in, but am off to look for what I am sure will be numerous congratulations from the ‘even-handed’ posters who claim to dole out criticism and credit without favour to one side or the other.

I am giving them a chance, I voted Labour.

Yes, I saw the fall in inflation - small % - but, in the right direction.

What disheartens me is Reeves and the black hole narrative.

I'm not a Tory voter. But we do need a mixed economy model.

Target for inflation is 2 percent btw…. Not quite out of the woods.
Are consumers simply spending less? I am happy with my Delia Smith’s very tasty soup recipes for example…. Very good value and without too much vat!

Toryism isn’t the only way. Why not give the government a chance to carry out their plans? Inflation as fallen today - a small amount, granted, but a fall. I’ve just got in, but am off to look for what I am sure will be numerous congratulations from the ‘even-handed’ posters who claim to dole out criticism and credit without favour to one side or the other.

growstuff

Dickens

nanna8

Yes, I agree growstuff - people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties. They are not listening and life gets harder. Unusual that this Labour Party doesn’t seem to help the poor,more take things away from them. In some ways they seem more like the old Conservatives. Either way, hope they improve for all my distant family that remains in the UK.

... people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties.

If you think about it, how can either of the two main parties offer something that is remotely "different"?

How many different ways do you think free-market Capitalism can be made to function that will satisfy the very rich, the not-so rich, and those at the bottom of the heap - all at the same time?

I think they could. Just look at how the Conservatives have changed from a "one nation" party to something far more reactionary. The Labour Party is now very different from Attlee's Labour.

My feeling is that "different" is necessarily "better". I shudder at the thought of Reform ever forming the government for all sorts of reasons.

I think they could. Just look at how the Conservatives have changed from a "one nation" party to something far more reactionary. The Labour Party is now very different from Attlee's Labour.

I think the "one nation" ideology of the Tory party ended with the crowning of Margaret Thatcher as leader of it.

Social obligation was replaced with individualism, and that's where we're at. I can't see any future Conservative party going back to the Disraeli concept / ideology of one-nation Toryism.

What do you think a modern Labour party can do, in this socio-economic climate?

Those that support Reform appear to think that if we can somehow "turn back the boats" and / or get rid of the immigrants that we don't want or need, there will be more money floating around to "look after our own". But it doesn't work like that, does it?

The only way we can "look after our own" is be re-creating the 'noblesse oblige' policies of the paternalistic one-nation Toryism - the mixed economy model, and that has well and truly been abandoned.

Whitewavemark2

Reform did indeed have some downright dodgy characters trying to get elected at the last election. Some were ex-convicts

Much the same as their previous incarnation as UKIP, Reform has had quite a few instances of candidates they have had to distance themselves from. If these are the ones who get through the selection process, the mind boggles at the calibre of those who failed.

As many have said on here, it's not just about high profile, soundbite MPs, a government needs people who have worked their time in local politics, and Reform don't have that. I think it would be an absolute disaster in many ways if Reform ever formed a government.

Reform did indeed have some downright dodgy characters trying to get elected at the last election. Some were ex-convicts

nanna8

What would worry me if I were in a position to vote for Reform is that on their website they ask for people to stand as potential MPs. They have a form to apply for consideration. Anyone could come out of the woodwork and put their name forward. How good and safe are their checks and who is checking? Sounds very ,very dodgy to me.

You're right nanna8. Reform just does not have a base of people who have spent years slogging their guts out canvassing (and talking to local people) or controlling public spending budgets. They don't have experience of real politics. It's all very well enacting some measure to keep 25% of the voters happy (which is what their soundbites are all about), but they need to consider all the repercussions. They've never had real power, so they've never need to consider the effect on others. They can mouth off as much as they like because there will be no consequences.

What would worry me if I were in a position to vote for Reform is that on their website they ask for people to stand as potential MPs. They have a form to apply for consideration. Anyone could come out of the woodwork and put their name forward. How good and safe are their checks and who is checking? Sounds very ,very dodgy to me.

And, yes, I do think that the incumbent government should be listening to the electorate, even if does have a massive majority.

What percentage of the voters do actually support Reform?

We all know that parties win elections without absolute majorities. However, if Reform were to win an election with (say) 26% of the votes, it's admittedly a significant number, but it's not the majority. 74% of voters would be against them and I'm not convinced that they would consider the opinions of that majority - they would be more interested in holding on to power. They're at the extreme end of political thought, so 74% would be extremely unhappy. Not only that, but I don't think Reform has the competence to form a government. I genuinely believe it would be a disaster for the UK as a whole, although I'm sure some people would be crowing.

Surely it's best to get all the problems sorted out now before they become a viable alternative to the other parties. Like it or not, the very fact that they have so much support shows the need for a new direction in British politics. The British people have been let down by successive governments (especially the Labour party) and it's about time their views were represented.

Dickens

nanna8

Yes, I agree growstuff - people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties. They are not listening and life gets harder. Unusual that this Labour Party doesn’t seem to help the poor,more take things away from them. In some ways they seem more like the old Conservatives. Either way, hope they improve for all my distant family that remains in the UK.

... people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties.

If you think about it, how can either of the two main parties offer something that is remotely "different"?

How many different ways do you think free-market Capitalism can be made to function that will satisfy the very rich, the not-so rich, and those at the bottom of the heap - all at the same time?

I think they could. Just look at how the Conservatives have changed from a "one nation" party to something far more reactionary. The Labour Party is now very different from Attlee's Labour.

My feeling is that "different" is necessarily "better". I shudder at the thought of Reform ever forming the government for all sorts of reasons.

nanna8

Yes, I agree growstuff - people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties. They are not listening and life gets harder. Unusual that this Labour Party doesn’t seem to help the poor,more take things away from them. In some ways they seem more like the old Conservatives. Either way, hope they improve for all my distant family that remains in the UK.

... people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties.

If you think about it, how can either of the two main parties offer something that is remotely "different"?

How many different ways do you think free-market Capitalism can be made to function that will satisfy the very rich, the not-so rich, and those at the bottom of the heap - all at the same time?

The leaders of the main U.K. political parties appear to have lost their ability to read the room despite multiple focus groups.

Not only do they not listen to those who have elected them, they go against their election pledges, time and time again.

Nigel Farage and his MP’s do give the impression of listening to the electorate, maybe one day we will find out if they stick to their pledges if they are ever in a position to form a government.

I vote for my constituency MP and what they do for our local area, gave up looking at the bigger picture many moons ago, I have more faith in the horoscope page of the local newspaper.

I suppose Farage could have come from a privileged background, had a leg up and so on. There is no even playing field unfortunately and precious little social mobility. That's the way of the world.

I suppose all policiticans are economical with the truth and to a large extent in it for their own benefit. But people like him and his ilk are something else.

It's hard to comprehend how we have ended up living in a country where this sort of thing has become normalised.

Yes, I agree growstuff - people are looking for something different because they are sick of the two major parties. They are not listening and life gets harder. Unusual that this Labour Party doesn’t seem to help the poor,more take things away from them. In some ways they seem more like the old Conservatives. Either way, hope they improve for all my distant family that remains in the UK.

He has never held one surgery in his constituency, citing security risk. Didn’t seem to hold him back when he was touting for votes,

The Clapton voter has been well and truly screwed.