Why do you support Labour?

Cumbrianmale56

I think people are moving away from the two main parties, or in many cases, just don't vote. There seems to be a widespread dislike of the two main parties now and tribal voters are very much in the minority.

Perhaps because the two main parties are now so similar.

All the conditions you describe were introduced under the Tory government?
And that makes it right for them to be continued under Labour.
Oh, now I understand.

Cumbrianmale56

I think people are moving away from the two main parties, or in many cases, just don't vote. There seems to be a widespread dislike of the two main parties now and tribal voters are very much in the minority.

I agree. I was encouraged to see that 42% of young voters chose the Greens, Lib Dem or Independents. I think we have moved away from a time when people voted either as their parents did or the polar opposite. Most of the under 30s rejected Reform because the issues that seem to obsess that party are generally not up for debate with younger people

FlitterMouse

Cumbrianmale56

I think people are moving away from the two main parties, or in many cases, just don't vote. There seems to be a widespread dislike of the two main parties now and tribal voters are very much in the minority.

I agree. I was encouraged to see that 42% of young voters chose the Greens, Lib Dem or Independents. I think we have moved away from a time when people voted either as their parents did or the polar opposite. Most of the under 30s rejected Reform because the issues that seem to obsess that party are generally not up for debate with younger people

I think voters in general have moved away from rigidly backing the the same party. I've voted for all three parties and see the young Thatcherte or socialist that I was off and on until I was 26 as a distant and unwelcome memory.

I’m another who worked hard from 17 - 62 when I retired because RA stopped me functioning in pretty much every way. Thank goodness for my ‘gold plated pension 1978-2012) and the NHS I’m still here )
I worked in an area that meant I met both benefit and tax cheats. I do hope the government succeeds in prosecuting both groups. Meanwhile I’m not wasting energy getting cross about it

According to the report that Willow3 shared (thanks,by the way) the number of homeless is much bigger than I realised . Why don’t they get more help from the government ? Why aren’t they looked after? Horrible situation, priorities seem skewed.

Wyllow3 sorry for typo

Homelessness is looked after by local councils. They are mostly hampered by lack of social housing and of course when they have to put people in hotels and similar it depends on local costs. What do you do when there is literally no accommodation? They don't have the money to build many more homes:

I know new social housing building is subsided by government grants but the problem has been as in the Shelter report for some time.

This report dispels some myths about migrants and local housing
www.cih.org/blogs/dispelling-myths-about-migrants-and-housing/#:~:text=New%20migrants%20arriving%20in%20the,if%20they%20eventually%20become%20eligible.

Some of the places that homeless people are put in are an absolute disgrace.
I always feel the council are just pleased to take people off their "homeless list " and hope people will put up with substandard conditions.

Meanwhile, the landlords must be raking in profits.

Allira

That was in reply to thi:

Agreed. By the end of a working life, though, it doesn't matter how much you have paid in - it is the number of contributions, not the value of them that counts towards a full pension. I think this is fair.

Yes, it is fair except that the goalposts keep moving!

Yes, moving goalposts on something as important as pensions is unfair. People need to make plans, and can only do so using the information they have at the time they make them. It’s all very well people going on about notice, but that’s not the point really. Major changes should be phased in very gradually, so people don’t have their lives completely disrupted when it’s too late to compensate.

The i is saying that Badenoch is talking about means-testing the triple lock. Whilst I don’t think she will ever be PM, often floating ideas like this can precipitate their coming into being, and for those who have already changed plans because of the rise in the pension age it would be a huge blow to have them exploded again in this way. Those saying that people with occupational pensions ‘can afford it’ are ignoring the fact that they have retired on the assumption that their outgoings will be covered by both a state pension and the one they have also paid into. Occupational pensions are not free, which seems to get forgotten at times. Telling them now that the money they paid into their work pension was wasted would be a travesty.

I think that telling people who lived according to the rules of the day (whether that meant leaving the workplace on marriage or buying a top-up pension) that they are going to be penalised for doing so is wrong.

Isn’t there a formula that works out at retirement whether people are better off under the old system (pre-1996) or the new one and defaults to the higher figure? If not, there should be, so people don’t have their plans disrupted. Otherwise people should get what they were told to expect.

Those who retired at 60 didn’t have to go back to work when the age changed (and I’m not saying they should have!). Their (unwritten) contract was honoured.

All the same, the principle I was talking about is one where the number, rather than the financial value of NI contributions count towards the amount of pension people get. It would be very wrong if low-paid workers had to work for longer than higher-paid ones to get the same amount.

I don't care if this sounds politically incorrect, but when you let 700,000 people into the country 2 years ago, it puts even more strain on housing, the NHS and schools. I can't see Labour doing anything to reduce immigration, as it's in their DNA to support mass immigration, and the Tories didn't do much either. It's time to have a points based immigration system.

Iam64

I’m another who worked hard from 17 - 62 when I retired because RA stopped me functioning in pretty much every way. Thank goodness for my ‘gold plated pension 1978-2012) and the NHS I’m still here )
I worked in an area that meant I met both benefit and tax cheats. I do hope the government succeeds in prosecuting both groups. Meanwhile I’m not wasting energy getting cross about it

When systems impose changes, individuals often adapt in ways that protect their interests, which may not align with the intended outcomes of the system. There are several strategies to bridge this gap between individual adaptation and the desired system outcomes. We are just not using them.

If you see people's behaviour as cheating, just remember "people do not corrupt systems, systems corrupt people's actions" and you must know that as many genuine mistakes are made by those running tax and benefit systems as those using them and together how do the errors compare to the fraud figures?

Cumbrianmale56

I don't care if this sounds politically incorrect, but when you let 700,000 people into the country 2 years ago, it puts even more strain on housing, the NHS and schools. I can't see Labour doing anything to reduce immigration, as it's in their DNA to support mass immigration, and the Tories didn't do much either. It's time to have a points based immigration system.

Politically incorrect or simply ignorant of the effects of immigration on our economy?

There is a huge difference between controlled immigration, enabling the government to choose those allowed to come here and what benefits they will bring, and uncontrolled immigration of people maybe unable to speak our language or in possession of any skills.

Cumbrianmale56

I don't care if this sounds politically incorrect, but when you let 700,000 people into the country 2 years ago, it puts even more strain on housing, the NHS and schools. I can't see Labour doing anything to reduce immigration, as it's in their DNA to support mass immigration, and the Tories didn't do much either. It's time to have a points based immigration system.

Sorry, but who is the 'you' who let in 700,00 people, and what has it to do with the Labour Party? What is the LP's DNA?

I don't think your answer is 'politically incorrect' (whatever that means). It is just incorrect.

Doodledog

Cumbrianmale56

I don't care if this sounds politically incorrect, but when you let 700,000 people into the country 2 years ago, it puts even more strain on housing, the NHS and schools. I can't see Labour doing anything to reduce immigration, as it's in their DNA to support mass immigration, and the Tories didn't do much either. It's time to have a points based immigration system.

Sorry, but who is the 'you' who let in 700,00 people, and what has it to do with the Labour Party? What is the LP's DNA?

I don't think your answer is 'politically incorrect' (whatever that means). It is just incorrect.

I don't think your answer is 'politically incorrect' (whatever that means). It is just incorrect.

You couldn't have put it better Doodledog.

Cumbrianmale56

I don't care if this sounds politically incorrect, but when you let 700,000 people into the country 2 years ago, it puts even more strain on housing, the NHS and schools. I can't see Labour doing anything to reduce immigration, as it's in their DNA to support mass immigration, and the Tories didn't do much either. It's time to have a points based immigration system.

Well, tho true some may not like what you say, it’s still the unvarnished truth.
A points based system would be ideal.

A points based immigration system would give us the people we need to fill the kind of jobs that we need.

I thought that was in the pipeline at one time?

Oreo

A points based immigration system would give us the people we need to fill the kind of jobs that we need.

Totally agree.

I have absolutely no idea why a points based scheme cannot be implemented.

Well, tho true some may not like what you say, it’s still the unvarnished truth.
Hardly. For one thing it is blaming the LP for what happened 2 years before they came to power, and for another it is going on about DNA. A lot of the time people complain about immigrants being single men - how do they put strain on schools? Illegal immigrants won't get housing or be able to use the NHS, so that doesn't add up either.

A points-based system may not be a bad idea, but we can't debate that from a place of such blatant inaccuracy.

The UK already has a points based immigration system.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f08a103e90e0712c5f221e0/UK_Points-Based_System_Further_Details_Web_Accessible.pdf

Oreo

Cumbrianmale56

I don't care if this sounds politically incorrect, but when you let 700,000 people into the country 2 years ago, it puts even more strain on housing, the NHS and schools. I can't see Labour doing anything to reduce immigration, as it's in their DNA to support mass immigration, and the Tories didn't do much either. It's time to have a points based immigration system.

Well, tho true some may not like what you say, it’s still the unvarnished truth.
A points based system would be ideal.

I'm not one of who thinks immigration should be banned, as it's impossible for a modern economy, but it should be controlled and employers like the NHS should be able to fill staff shortages from overseas.

Casdon

The UK already has a points based immigration system.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f08a103e90e0712c5f221e0/UK_Points-Based_System_Further_Details_Web_Accessible.pdf

Thanks for pointing that out, Casdon, I was beginning to think I was imagining things or living on a completely different planet from some posters. I knew we had a points based system.

In fact, according to this BBC news item from 2016, the Labour government introduced a points based system for immigration in 2008... (except it was based on 'tiers') Only fellow EU citizens were exempt from it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29594642

I'm not one of who thinks immigration should be banned, as it's impossible for a modern economy, but it should be controlled and employers like the NHS should be able to fill staff shortages from overseas.

What planet are you living on, Cumbrianmale?. It IS controlled and has been for along time.