Was it in public interest to cover up the terror links to the Southport stabbings?

Casdon

Do you think all the information about him should have been immediately in the public domain, before he was convicted? How do you balance that with the rights of the individual? That worries me when people don’t even understand the difference between a terrorist and a murderer.

Let alone understand that putting information out into the public domain would have given his defence team grounds to claim the trial was prejudiced. Which nobody wants

Crikey. We or certa

We or certainly I understand many of the aspects of this. We also understood pretty everyone in the riots was labelled far right with zero concerns for prejudice at trials.

Starmer’s first big mistake? He lost a lot of support because of the way they went on, labelling everyone present like that. It was disgusting.

I believe that because of his age at the time of the offences (a few days off his 18th birthday, I think) he cannot be sentenced to life imprisonment. I might be wrong, but that’s what I think. It’s quite scary to think he may be out on the streets in a few years time. Even if he served 20 years, he’d only be about 38 when he was released. Anyway, it’s all speculation, it’ll be interesting to hear what the judge has to say on Thursday.

maddyone

I believe that because of his age at the time of the offences (a few days off his 18th birthday, I think) he cannot be sentenced to life imprisonment. I might be wrong, but that’s what I think. It’s quite scary to think he may be out on the streets in a few years time. Even if he served 20 years, he’d only be about 38 when he was released. Anyway, it’s all speculation, it’ll be interesting to hear what the judge has to say on Thursday.

I don't know what happens to under 18's who if they were 18 would have been sent to Broadmoor as that where it should be. (after reading the Guardian article about his background and the warning signs.

"Starmer said there were "grave questions to answer as to how the state failed in its ultimate duty to protect these young girls", so I expect an inquiry. (sky news)

Galaxy

If you carry on like this you are going to hand the keys of number 10 to Farage.
Nobody believes a word that is said.

What on earth are you on about?

There weren't any terrorism "links". He had a handbook, which is the only mention of terrorism. When did the police actually find it?

The riots started almost immediately after the murders. There's every chance the police hadn't even found the handbook by that stage. Meanwhile Farage was on TV stirring asking questions.

nanna8

Starmer’s first big mistake? He lost a lot of support because of the way they went on, labelling everyone present like that. It was disgusting.

Why was it disgusting? Did you read any of the messages on social media? He was right.

Everyone who disagrees with him is labelled Far Right. That is disgusting and I wait with interest to see how he copes with Trump’s administration, a genuine ‘ right wing ‘ rather than imaginary.

He was referred to the Prevent programme because of his obsession with violence but didn’t meet their criteria as a potential terrorist.
He was excluded from school in year 9 after violent attacks on pupils he said were bullying him. He only attended the pupil referral unit he was referred to on 2 or 3 occasions. I read staff who visited his home to explore his absence took a police escort. Very unusual.
He isn’t a terrorist, he’s a very disturbed and dangerous young man who set out to kill little girls at a happy event. We don’t know what triggered this, or how he knew they were there. At some stage he was diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum. I’ve seen no mental health diagnosis yet but no doubt this will become known during sentencing.
It’s good there’s to be a public inquiry. It’s obvious various departments knew he was sitting at home, studying the internet to feed his obsessions. Our CAMHS are not functioning. We have many children out of school with no effective ways of getting them back into education. My fear is he was another on the list of ‘doesn’t fit our remit , send him somewhere else’.

Yes, this last paragraph!

At least if some good comes of this it will reveal the woefully inadequate support our struggling young people receive in school and in some very troubled homes.

When I expressed concerns about a young man I was 'teaching' during Covid, saying he was in danger of radicalisation I was laughed at.

This thank goodness, is a rare and unusual case and nothing to do with terrorism but as in lots of cases like this how could this horrific acts have been prevented?

Unfortunately like lots of government initiatives Prevent is just a box ticking exercise that no one wants to investigate further.

Yes, and to answer the original and rather inflammatory nature of the OP's question, yes it was right to 'cover' it up because there were no terrorist links.

Some people struggle with the truth it seems.

According tto what I read, Rudakubana was not driven by an alleagance to any specific terrorist cause or organisation, but had an obsession with extreme violence and wanted to commit it. He accessed terrorist sites from a range of organisation because of the information they had on how to commit violent acts, and it was his obsession with violence that led to the referral to prevent, not any terrorist link. This act was not a terririst act.

However whether his act was driven by a terorrist alleagance or not, it beggars belief that someone with his clear obsession with violence, his violent behaviour which was known to schools and the police was allowed to go on for so long. I understand he has been diagnosed as autistic, and up thread there was a mention of schizoprenia, he should have been sectioned.

When we hear of autistic people whose only violence is directed against themselves being kept in hospital, often in solitary confinement for years. I cannot understand why this young man had never been sectioned and locked up.

That picture of him in the news yesterday will give you nightmares.
If any face was ever evil it’s his.

He had a terrorist training manual and ricin in his bedroom. At some point he would have committed terrorist acts. No question. He may be autistic, deeply disturbed, an innocent choirboy from a so called good Christian family gone wrong but he is an evil monster who was allowed to live at home with his so called good Christian family and prepare these diabolical acts. The photos of him in the media previously were disingenuous to make you think he wasn’t the evil demon that yesterday’s mugshot shows you that he clearly is.

No amount of special education in a referral unit would have set him on the right path. How many more of them are out there, festering away, placed in schools around the country at risk to other children. More than we will ever know.

Kadinsky -the image you refer to made me immediately think this person is very sick in his mind.
His acts were evil, i don’t dispute that. His deterioration from year 9 will be a familiar one to anyone with experience of working or living with adolescents sinking into mental illness. We will learn if he was psychotic as the medical evidence emerges. But yes to a public inquiry. Our services aren’t functioning well

In my close there is an autistic man who lives in a rental property opposite my house. He has carers with him all the time. They often take him out for walks and sometimes have to restrain him when he becomes violent. I don’t understand why he is living in a road inhabited by mainly pensioners such as myself but also several young families with children. I always speak pleasantly to him if I meet him in passing but if I’m working on my front garden and he starts wandering outside I go back into the house. I’m not usually a nervous person but it worries me that he has to be restrained sometimes. He was also moved into a rental property that the previous inhabitants said needed a lot of work doing to make it habitable; it rained in, it was damp etc. It worries me.

Some people struggle with the truth it seems.

No, some people struggle with telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The deliberate delay in revealing his name presented the opportunity for false information to be circulated, with malice aforethought.

Going back to this particular case, imo the news media are trying to stir things up and incite more protests. If any politician knows what sort of information divulged at the time might have jeopardised the case for prosecution it’s the PM.

eazybee

^Rudakubana had been referred three times to Prevent, the Government scheme to stop terrorist violence (no dates given).One of the referrals followed concerns about his potential interest in the killing of children in a school massacre.^
He also admitted production of a biological toxin ricin on or before July 29 as well as possession of information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing to commit an act of terrorism. DT

Why were the referrals not followed up?

It was the refusal to release his name which was the catalyst for the riots.

His name wasn’t released because he was under age at the time and even if he hadn’t been under age it is not normal practice to release names until charges have been made. It is very clear that the false information on social media that he was an asylum seeker recently arrived in the UK was the catalyst for the rioting.

eazybee

^Some people struggle with the truth it seems.^

No, some people struggle with telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The deliberate delay in revealing his name presented the opportunity for false information to be circulated, with malice aforethought.

What deliberate delay? He was under age at the time and the law was being followed.

nanna8

Everyone who disagrees with him is labelled Far Right. That is disgusting and I wait with interest to see how he copes with Trump’s administration, a genuine ‘ right wing ‘ rather than imaginary.

He was asked that very question in his speech this morning. He did not answer it and spoke instead about the Police and Ambulance personnel before moving on to the next question and not giving the journalist a chance to point that out.

It is very clear that the false information on social media that he was an asylum seeker recently arrived in the UK was the catalyst for the rioting.

Absolutely, Jane43.

I understand that they couldn't just release all of the information, but a strong rebuttal about his non asylum seeker status wouldn't have gone amiss.

Southport is quite a quiet place. Nobody was more surprised than the residents when the riots kicked off.

But despite Keir's hope that things will be done differently. I'm not optimistic. I think this sort of outrageous attack will happen again. For some reason, a tiny minority of humans can and do behave appallingly and I think they always will.

It's strange that in our country, where there is so much surveillance, that so many of those with evil intent are over-looked. All the children being ill-treated by their parents, potential terrorists being brushed aside.
It's about time those who voice concerns were properly listened to instead of being branded trouble makers.
Why do successive governments have difficulty acknowledging the fact that there are factions whose intent is to destroy Western civilisation?

It’s good there’s to be a public inquiry. It’s obvious various departments knew he was sitting at home, studying the internet to feed his obsessions. Our CAMHS are not functioning. We have many children out of school with no effective ways of getting them back into education. My fear is he was another on the list of ‘doesn’t fit our remit , send him somewhere else’.

Totally agree with you Iam on this. A bureaucratic merry-go-round.