Musk’s salute.

Whitewavemark2

I think that for me the salute cannot be taken in isolation.

I look at Musk’s political affiliations, Trumps rhetoric, the Proud boys rhetoric and violence, the white suppremacists and violence and the actions all of them are taking.

Adds up to more than an unfortunate hand gesture.

Especially as Musk took a large part in the Ult-right Conference in Austria this weekend- right where it all started and where the nazi salute is still used by the AFD there.

foxie48

It's Musk's responses that I find the most worrying he just doesn't seem to understand why his gesture could be seen as offensive, neither does he care. There's an article doing the rounds by someone who was with him when he visited Auschwitz who described him as being completely indifferent to what he saw. He was more concerned about getting the best publicity shots. Frankly that is more concerning to me than a gesture that might or might not be a Nazi salute.

Yes, I was just going to mention that. I’m not sure where I read it; I think it was in The Times?

25Avalon

It is not a Nazi salute but close to it. Musk is a strange character and will probably fall out with Trump before too long. Now that will be interesting.

I do hope your feelings bear out. They are two powerful alpha males, so the jostling in terms of personality will always be present. John Bolton comes to mind, another vile person and did personally fall out. The policies in the republican party did not change. I think its unlikely in the short term.
For the record it was a Nazi salute. It was thrust from the shoulder twice.
I remember when the insurrection or coup d'état happened the MSM used it metaphorically; it was only later on we knew it was a real coup. The Nazi salute exudes fascism as evidenced by placing immigrants on a flight at gunpoint and the completing the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Checkpoints to be recently manned by US security personnel. Musk also supported the AFD who want to forcibly remove Turkish heritage and muslims from Germany.

It is not a Nazi salute but close to it. Musk is a strange character and will probably fall out with Trump before too long. Now that will be interesting.

It definitely was a Nazi salute, signifying the start of some type of ethnic cleansing in the USA. Even I didn't expect to see mexicans shackled at gunpoint being boarded onto a plane with not even a week into power.
This is the same country sending 2000lbs bombs to Israel for the Gaza genocide. John Pilger and Agent orange comes to mind.

Whitewavemark2

I think that for me the salute cannot be taken in isolation.

I look at Musk’s political affiliations, Trumps rhetoric, the Proud boys rhetoric and violence, the white suppremacists and violence and the actions all of them are taking.

Adds up to more than an unfortunate hand gesture.

Adds up to more than an unfortunate hand gesture.

Yes, it does.

And the focus on it - with some highlighting old photo's / footage of Hitler for comparison, ignores all the other aspects you've mentioned, which give a more detailed impression of the man and what he believes, what power might be invested in him, and what he might do with that power via his 'X' platform and his massive wealth.

It's about mmore than a "was it" or "wasn't it" question.

I think that for me the salute cannot be taken in isolation.

I look at Musk’s political affiliations, Trumps rhetoric, the Proud boys rhetoric and violence, the white suppremacists and violence and the actions all of them are taking.

Adds up to more than an unfortunate hand gesture.

foxie48

It's Musk's responses that I find the most worrying he just doesn't seem to understand why his gesture could be seen as offensive, neither does he care. There's an article doing the rounds by someone who was with him when he visited Auschwitz who described him as being completely indifferent to what he saw. He was more concerned about getting the best publicity shots. Frankly that is more concerning to me than a gesture that might or might not be a Nazi salute.

If, as has been said, he is 'on the spectrum' it is possible he may not be able to 'read the room', as the saying goes.

Please don't assume I'm an apologist for the man, I detest his apparent braggadocio and his attempt to interfere with our political establishment

I don't believe he's an innocent - he's made his views pretty clear... all under the guise of 'free speech', and I think he's a troublemaker and an extremely wealthy and powerful, dangerous member of the techie broligarchy (I got that from the media!).

I'm just very wary of black or white blanket appraisals of him, and the gesture he made. Our reactions are subjective (including mine), but intense emotional reactions - to any incident / situation, often lead to conspiracy theories, misinformation, and ultimately - as we've seen with the recent riots - political instability and mayhem.

What worries me most about him is that since taking over the platform 'X', he appears to have set himself up as some sort of Guru in the field of political ideology; manipulating, re-directing, and highlighting inflammatory and controversial postings.

Who made him an expert in this sphere? Why are we even listening to him? Why this assumption that an engineering / technical genius is a mastermind in political doctrine? Why are we giving him this power?

It's Musk's responses that I find the most worrying he just doesn't seem to understand why his gesture could be seen as offensive, neither does he care. There's an article doing the rounds by someone who was with him when he visited Auschwitz who described him as being completely indifferent to what he saw. He was more concerned about getting the best publicity shots. Frankly that is more concerning to me than a gesture that might or might not be a Nazi salute.

Galaxy

Again I disagree, this must be tedious for everyone else,
I am often surprised that people think their offense will influence others thoughts

I agree with you Galaxy.. on both points

Again I disagree, this must be tedious for everyone else,
I am often surprised that people think their offense will influence others thoughts

Galaxy

I dont agree with it - as I mentioned I am half german - my father (fully german!) loathes Musk - no idea yet which side of this debate he falls on.

Honestly I find it extremely offensive and sad at the same time you cannot accept the truth, this was a NAZI salute that would result in a prosecution. Organisations in the USA such as the KKK (criminal organisation) have also used this gesture

I dont agree with it - as I mentioned I am half german - my father (fully german!) loathes Musk - no idea yet which side of this debate he falls on.

Galaxy

Kalm there are only so many times I can say no. I am not going to say the words you want me to say. Believe me I have had plenty of practice of not following orders from randoms on the internet

So what did you think of the Die Zeit comment ( see above ) .

Kalm there are only so many times I can say no. I am not going to say the words you want me to say. Believe me I have had plenty of practice of not following orders from randoms on the internet

Galaxy

I think you are wrong.

Well the I.C.E. Now has attempted to raid a school in Chicago . An elementary school ( young children ) so now teachers in the school not only have to protect their schools against guns but their own government as well . This is well and truly a fascist government if they are targeting children !

Galaxy

We dont need a referendum - we just dont agree with you.

We may as well get on with our knitting 🤭

Kalm

Galaxy

Not sure how far we are going to get here. Me saying no you saying yes.

All I can say is the days of bullying disappeared in the seventies, just accept the fact this a NAZI vile salute and move on.

Oh dear 🤔😁

Galaxy

Not sure how far we are going to get here. Me saying no you saying yes.

All I can say is the days of bullying disappeared in the seventies, just accept the fact this a NAZI vile salute and move on.

Not sure how far we are going to get here. Me saying no you saying yes.

Yep an aggressive vile Nazi Salute, hailing to his criminal leader

I think you are wrong.

Galaxy

We dont need a referendum - we just dont agree with you.

And you are just plain absolutely wrong, its not about agreeing or disagreeing. It was NAZI salute full stop. This would be criminal or offensive action in most places. There is no need to impose falsehood or untruths. There is a difference between fact and fiction.

We dont need a referendum - we just dont agree with you.

pascal30

Although I don't think the actual salute was meant to be offensive, I now think that Musk is so pissed off with all this deflamatory media attention that he will behave exactly as he has been portrayed..

He should have been ignored.. he will be even more of a menace now

This WAS a Nazi salute, it's like denying a triangle has 3 sides.
Do people not understand Nazi philosophy. There is no "alleged" about it, It was there for all to see in context of the criminal leader. This is where right wing thinking ends up. All nonsense about Musk having ADHD is rubbish as he as done other non verbal signals with full intent. We don't need a referendum on "Can you prove day is night"......