Southport stabbings - sentencing

Allira

HousePlantQueen

Thanks for the info politicsnerd, every day is a school day on GN!

I admit that my point was more to do with the inference that he couldn't be Welsh due to the colour of his skin. There was already difficulties in acknowledging that he was from a Christian, not a Muslim family.

Crikey, there are lots of black Welsh people.
One First Minister was black.

He was born in Zambia but Welsh.
I can't explain it. It's in the heart.

Ask one of our Welsh Gransnetters.

How do you know that Rudakubana doesn't feel Welsh in his heart? You said he's not Welsh but British. If he doesn't feel British in his heart is he something else?

‘He was not insane. He was fit to plead and was tried and convicted as a sane person’

Thank you barleyfields for pointing this out. It a key fact.

Sometimes people just do not fit the services we would like them to. The question is how we deal with those people when there are clear warning signs that they are not coping with life and may pose a danger.

Maybe many posters dont know the long history of Tiger Bay in Cardiff and the very long established Welsh black communities

HousePlantQueen

Thanks for the info politicsnerd, every day is a school day on GN!

I admit that my point was more to do with the inference that he couldn't be Welsh due to the colour of his skin. There was already difficulties in acknowledging that he was from a Christian, not a Muslim family.

Crikey, there are lots of black Welsh people.
One First Minister was black.

He was born in Zambia but Welsh.
I can't explain it. It's in the heart.

Ask one of our Welsh Gransnetters.

Rowantree

Pure evil? Like it or not he's a human being, however appalling his crime. And it is absolutely horrifying. But 'pure evil' - that implies non human, not like the rest of us. Unfortunately humans all have the capacity to commit dreadful acts or compassionate ones. This man - no one really understands his mental health issues, just snippets. All we know is the horror resulting from his actions. There needs to be an inquiry into how he slipped through the net and into improving mental health services so this is less likely to happen in future.
I don't believe anyone sane could commit such horror. Without some form of drastic treatment he could put other prisoners at risk as well as officers so somewhere like Broadmoor might well be a good option.

He was not insane. He was fit to plead and was tried and convicted as a sane person.

Thanks for the info politicsnerd, every day is a school day on GN!

I admit that my point was more to do with the inference that he couldn't be Welsh due to the colour of his skin. There was already difficulties in acknowledging that he was from a Christian, not a Muslim family.

welbeck

As to his father a woman rang LBC to say she had taught him maths in an adult education class.
And that he was gentle polite and very helpful to weaker students. He also wrote her a letter of condolence re a family loss.
He stood out in her memory for these reasons. It was a few years ago. She also said he had a disabled child in a wheelchair.
His ambition was to become an accountant or a maths teacher.

It's good that we have some information that doesn't try to demonise the father with no knowledge. Having tried to get the police involved and nothing happening, the parents must have felt isolated and somehow trying to control their son but not how.

HousePlantQueen

love0c

A few comments on him being 'Welsh'. He is not 'Welsh'! People saying he is are being ridiculous! Allsorts - I agree!

He was born in Wales, therefore he is Welsh, the same as Suella Braverman, Pritti Patel and others were born in the UK and were thus able to become government ministers.

Not true HousePlantQueen, simply being born in Wales does not make you UK citizen.

The UK is not, repeat not, part of the USA, nor do we abide by there rules where the principle of "jus soli," which grants citizenship to individuals born on U.S. soil, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents, exists.

In the United Kingdom, the rules of citizenship at birth differ from the principle of 'jus soli' as applied in countries like the United States or Canada. The UK has a system that combines aspects of both 'jus soli' and 'jus sanguinis' (citizenship by descent). A child born in the UK does not automatically acquire British citizenship unless at least one parent is a British citizen or has settled status in the UK (i.e., they have indefinite leave to remain).

If neither of these conditions is met, the child will not be a British citizen at birth, but they may be eligible for registration as a British citizen under certain circumstances. I'm not sure of the status of this young man's parents but if one or both are British Citizens then it seems reasonable that he sees himself as Welsh but it cannot be true if you just depend on birthplace.

Because of our joint system of 'jus soli' and 'jus sanguinis' it makes it easier for a child born to British parents abroad to have British Citizenship. For once there is a good working system and parents can register a child at the nearest British consulate or embassy and obtain a Consulate certificate (a second Birth Certificate) although the parents will have to show proof of their citizenship which, I believe, is a little more complicated than popping down to the local council office to registar birth.

My great Grandma was Welsh and her family before her going back to when they started to record things - in Welsh. I don’t describe myself as Welsh but I do say I have Welsh blood. A difference, perhaps? That creature has not got Welsh blood, more the devil’s blood I think.

I wonder if the family moved to Lancs to be near Alder Hey hospital for their disabled child who had lost the use of his legs.

As to his father a woman rang LBC to say she had taught him maths in an adult education class.
And that he was gentle polite and very helpful to weaker students. He also wrote her a letter of condolence re a family loss.
He stood out in her memory for these reasons. It was a few years ago. She also said he had a disabled child in a wheelchair.
His ambition was to become an accountant or a maths teacher.

It is hard to understand the mentality of a teenager who rings ChildLine and tells them he has taken a knife to school to deal with someone who irritated him.
They ChildLine made one of the referrals to police.
He seems to have been of at least average intellect.
Why announce the intention??
Seems self defeating.

He has committed evil acts.
He should be in prison, not Broadmoor and would be put in solitary, I would think.

Pure evil? Like it or not he's a human being, however appalling his crime. And it is absolutely horrifying. But 'pure evil' - that implies non human, not like the rest of us. Unfortunately humans all have the capacity to commit dreadful acts or compassionate ones. This man - no one really understands his mental health issues, just snippets. All we know is the horror resulting from his actions. There needs to be an inquiry into how he slipped through the net and into improving mental health services so this is less likely to happen in future.
I don't believe anyone sane could commit such horror. Without some form of drastic treatment he could put other prisoners at risk as well as officers so somewhere like Broadmoor might well be a good option.

Rosie51

Allira

Rosie51

Why isn't he Welsh? What makes or doesn't make someone Welsh?

Where do I begin?

Is Shirley Bassey Welsh? She's always listed as being Welsh but had an English mother, Nigerian father, but was born in Cardiff.

A child of Tiger Bay an Splott. A friend of mine grew up with Shirley.

Rosie51

Likewise Colin Jackson, also born in Cardiff of parents of Jamaican and Jamaican/Scottish descent. Is he Welsh? He certainly seems to think he is.

Yes, Shirley and Colin are Welsh and Colin's sister too.
They embrace Wales.

petra

Stansgran
There are numerous articles online explaining why the trail was delayed.
I think you’ll get more educated answers there.
And why shouldn’t they move to Lancashire?

I think that what Stansgran means is did work, family, or a love of hotpot take them to Lancashire or was it that they had problems in Cardiff.

As I said earlier in the thread there are many unanswered questions.

Stansgran
There are numerous articles online explaining why the trail was delayed.
I think you’ll get more educated answers there.
And why shouldn’t they move to Lancashire?

We will know more about the parents’ involvement because it will feature in the inquiry. It’s an important part of the jigsaw. Patience …

I do wish things were more out in the open. To buy things from Amazon you need a credit card. Was he using his parents and why didn’t they stop it especially for knives? And wouldn’t a normal parent ask what do you need caster oil beans for? I certainly would as it’s the first time today that I’ve heard of this.
I like cooking and have a very large collection of knives,from butter,cheese,filleting, but I be astonished if a child of mine bought a knife on my card. I also wonder why his parents were refugees from Rwanda. Were they a failed part of the genocide and could we clear up Kier Starmers rumoured involvement in their appearance here ? And furthermore why did they move to Lancashire? Just a little openess would ease minds.

Likewise Colin Jackson, also born in Cardiff of parents of Jamaican and Jamaican/Scottish descent. Is he Welsh? He certainly seems to think he is.

Allira

Rosie51

Why isn't he Welsh? What makes or doesn't make someone Welsh?

Where do I begin?

Is Shirley Bassey Welsh? She's always listed as being Welsh but had an English mother, Nigerian father, but was born in Cardiff.

You could be Welsh even if born just over the border in England.

Rosie51

Why isn't he Welsh? What makes or doesn't make someone Welsh?

Where do I begin?

Why isn't he Welsh? What makes or doesn't make someone Welsh?