Southport stabbings - sentencing

I’m not sure he feels anything in his heart to be honest.

If he doesn't feel British in his heart is he something else?

You tell me as you seem to know!!

Legally insane means a person was suffering from a mental disorder at the time of a crime and was unable to understand what they were doing or that it was wrong.

It enables prosecution to take place.

However that is not saying he doesn't have a diagnosable severe Mental Illness.

Allira

^If he doesn't feel British in his heart is he something else?^

You tell me as you seem to know!!

I don't claim to know anything about his feelings of what nationality he is. You were the one who said he's not Welsh he's British. You haven't explained how and what authority you have to make that pronouncement.

😂😂😂

HousePlantQueen

Thanks for the info politicsnerd, every day is a school day on GN!

I admit that my point was more to do with the inference that he couldn't be Welsh due to the colour of his skin. There was already difficulties in acknowledging that he was from a Christian, not a Muslim family.

That's why I come here There is usually someone who knows or pops off to do a bit of research.

I think where you are from is quite difficult. I'm British but I was born in Germany (I have my Consulate Certificate safe and sound). I have no idea - other than the British bit - where I'm from. However, if Yorkshire wanted to adopt me I would happily say yes!

My little granddaughters, born in Scandinavia, have dual citizenship as their parents are British, although my daughter has, now, citizenship of her adopted country.
They are growing up in a place that will, surely, always be " home" to them.
They take part on National day by dressing in the bunad, sing the National song with pride, and attend the local church.
I would say they were Scandinavian in their heart.

My family are much the same Chocolatelovinggran. My son and family are all dual nationals, all British Australian. My brother and nieces are also dual, all British American.

My DGS has dual nationality too but I doubt very much that he feels British.

Sarnia

We need to bring back the mental institutions. Care in the Community hasn't been the complete answer.
This boy and the one who murdered the 2 young students and the caretaker in Nottingham were well known to the authorities' for their extreme and concerning behaviours but everyone passed the buck and in the end nobody does anything. Keep people like this locked away 24/7 in a secure unit under medication because they should not have the opportunity to walk out streets.

This is so true!

It doesn’t really matter whether this person felt Welsh, or British, or not. What matters is what he did and it’s terrible consequences. And that apparently there were fifteen failures of the authorities, where just possibly he could have been stopped.

No doubt that will all come out in the inquiry, although it will no doubt be along with the usual platitudes lessons will be learned, except I no longer believe that.

maddyone it does matter though. His family were given asylum in 2002. As I understand this was 8 years after the Rwanda genocide. Rwanda was declared a safe country when they were greanted asylum. Hence, there was no reason for the family to be given right to stay here. There is no need for me to say what the situation would be had they been refused asylum. We are allowing people into this country every day who follow and hold dangerous beliefs.

I don't think there were (or are) any problems with his parents which would have justified refusing them asylum. They are evangelical Christians . They seem to have been very worried about their son - you don't call the police 3 or 4 times for nothing.

love0c

maddyone it does matter though. His family were given asylum in 2002. As I understand this was 8 years after the Rwanda genocide. Rwanda was declared a safe country when they were greanted asylum. Hence, there was no reason for the family to be given right to stay here. There is no need for me to say what the situation would be had they been refused asylum. We are allowing people into this country every day who follow and hold dangerous beliefs.

These parents were successful in their search for asylum. If they didn’t qualify for asylum in 2002, they wouldn’t have been granted it. They were not “people we are allowing into this country every day who follow and hold dangerous beliefs’.

The father worked as a taxi driver. They were well known at their Church, they were Christians. They appear to have tried to co-operate with agencies whose staff struggled to get their son to co-operate.

Vintage They did not need to seek asylum. The country they lived in and indeed from was a safe country.

It’s clear they were granted asylum after legal consideration. Rwanda was not safe for them.

love0c

maddyone it does matter though. His family were given asylum in 2002. As I understand this was 8 years after the Rwanda genocide. Rwanda was declared a safe country when they were greanted asylum. Hence, there was no reason for the family to be given right to stay here. There is no need for me to say what the situation would be had they been refused asylum. We are allowing people into this country every day who follow and hold dangerous beliefs.

But…. We didn’t let him in holding dangerous beliefs, he was born here to Rwandan Christian parents.They will have led sad and difficult lives recently with their disturbed son and no doubt tried many times to alert the authorities and ask for help.

Exactly Oreo

What I don’t understand is tho is why he won’t be sent to Broadmoor . He’s clearly not right mentally.
People like Ian Brady were sent there as mentally ill for what he did ( and was he or simply an unspeakable sadist?)
This was an attack with no motive really other than a desire to kill.

I am not sure I agree, I think there was a target, we may find out differently, but I dont think there was no motive behind those he chose.

Oreo - apologies for repeating myself, I don’t believe we know enough about this young man’s diagnosis and the medics are probably still assessing.
It’s unusual for an under 18 year old to be diagnosed as having a personality disorder. It’s my understanding that’s due to developmental issues. Some PDs are seen as untreatable, so the offender goes into the prison rather than hospital estate. This murderer is so dangerous the ‘right’ environment needs to be identified. If memory is right, didn’t one if the Kray brothers start in prison but subsequently moved to Broadmoor

It’s perplexing isn’t it? It may come out at a later date why he targeted girls at a dancing class other than that of choosing a soft easily vulnerable group.

Yes, I did read once that around 18 is when a personality disorder can appear, my DD’s friend was diagnosed and sectioned at around that age.He was 17, and maybe close to 18?
He may yet be moved to Broadmoor, and you’re right about the Kray.Mind you he was mentally unstable long before he was convicted.

I think that there is an argument that you could compare this young man to the many young men in the USA, who have been invited to violence by obsessing over just the same influencers and historical figures like Hitler and Genghis Khan.

The difference (and thank god’ is that guns are not readily available in the U.K.

I would hope that this now encourages the various authorities to take those young men of whom their attention has been brought very seriously indeed.

Wyllow3

Legally insane means a person was suffering from a mental disorder at the time of a crime and was unable to understand what they were doing or that it was wrong.

It enables prosecution to take place.

However that is not saying he doesn't have a diagnosable severe Mental Illness.

He is just plain evil. No excuses, been seen by numerous Dr's, found to be fit to attend sentencing. His screeching and shouting was attempt by him to alter this, cunning. I'm pleased he's been put away in prison. He'll have many years to contemplate what he has done. That is punishment indeed. Although possibly he won't even give those beautiful children a second thought.