Trade wars - how will it effect the UK?

If anyone is seriously interested in how the whole money system works watch The Spiders Web ( Britains second empire) on Netflix.

MaizieD

I wonder how Canadians will react to US citizens fleeing to Canada to escape Trump’s madness? I predict it could well happen

I also suspect that Canadians (who, extraordinarily enough, are immigrants or descended from immigrants) may be more worried at the moment by Trump than by immigrants.

Listening to the piece on Radio 4 it is a high percentage of migrants that are in uproar.

I propose the increase in earnings has come from inflation and the need to buy the essentials of life, money supply has had to increase to achieve that.

The government created money to fund WW1, WW2 and it was gradually replaced by borrowings, in recent times in 2002 borrowing was 29% of GDP, since then creation of money has increased to over 30% and total debt nearly 100% of GDP the economics have failed because the government is spending more than we earn.

We paid back the £900 billion you say we created, it does not look like we are going to be paying back current debt anytime soon. Historically we did not have the intense financial trading we have today, even so investors separate borrowing/creation for growth from that to fund social spending

Thank you for this post MaizieD- very interesting and food for thought.

The flaw with “Maisies” view of economics is the government can print/create money, but those awful finance markets don’t like it.

The finance markets don't have to like it. They can speculate with other currencies.

It is public knowledge that the government has 'printed' some £900billion of our money to cover 'emergencies' since the beginning of this century. The finance markets weren't bothered.

It has steadily 'printed' money to expand the money supply in this country for the last 100 years at least.

Reflect on this, David and tell me where the money for the increase in earnings has come from.

Consider also that the population of the UK in 1950 was about 45million and is now 66 million +

Start

Average weekly earnings of industrial wage earners shown by Ministry of Labour inquiries were £4 16s. ld. in July, 1945, £6 16s. 2d. in April, 1951, and £9 2s. 3d. in April, 1955, a rise of 42 per cent. between 1945 and 1951, and 34 per cent. between 1951 and 1955.

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1956-02-23/debates/8806eeb3-a61f-4178-8115-8648bbd89f38/AverageIndustrialWage(PurchasingPower)

Wages in Manufacturing in the United Kingdom increased to 772 GBP/Week in November from 771 GBP/Week in October of 2024.
tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/wages-in-manufacturing

End

Would trade standards might be the issue? I'd assumed paying to keep NATO afloat without so much USA money? Isn't NATO in US interests security wise?

Casdon

I’m not sure that’s true, I think people do listen to Maizie’s view, but those who don’t subscribe to that are not necessarily people who ‘won’t change the minds that have been made up for them anytime soon’. That’s patronising people who think differently but whose views are equally valid, as well as those who are sceptics, and those who go along with whatever their own party’s line is. This applies in the wider world as well as on Gransnet.

The flaw with “Maisies” view of economics is the government can print/create money, but those awful finance markets don’t like it.
Around 30% of current borrowings are QE, that’s probably getting close to the limit before confidence becomes shaky. The government realizes that and does not want to increase borrowing/QE .
Comment was made about WW2 recovery that was accompanied by high taxation and a much lower level of state support.

Claremont

MaizieD

I wonder how Canadians will react to US citizens fleeing to Canada to escape Trump’s madness? I predict it could well happen

I also suspect that Canadians (who, extraordinarily enough, are immigrants or descended from immigrants) may be more worried at the moment by Trump than by immigrants.

That is clear- we have many friends and family who are considering a move to Canada or Europe, looking at all possibilities.

There won’t be any work available in Canada though, because if the tariffs do bite it’s going to seriously affect their economy, as it will everywhere else if Trump goes ahead.

MaizieD

I wonder how Canadians will react to US citizens fleeing to Canada to escape Trump’s madness? I predict it could well happen

I also suspect that Canadians (who, extraordinarily enough, are immigrants or descended from immigrants) may be more worried at the moment by Trump than by immigrants.

I heard on the grapevine that the Canadians are building a wall to keep illegal immigrants from the USA getting into Canada.

MaizieD

I wonder how Canadians will react to US citizens fleeing to Canada to escape Trump’s madness? I predict it could well happen

I also suspect that Canadians (who, extraordinarily enough, are immigrants or descended from immigrants) may be more worried at the moment by Trump than by immigrants.

That is clear- we have many friends and family who are considering a move to Canada or Europe, looking at all possibilities.

Farage says we should not have to adhere to EU Law and Standards to export to EU. Why? Of course if you want to export you should have to follow their rules and standards.

I mean, we could choose to sell carpets to EU by the square foot, and in widths in feet and inches- but they would not buy them. Same for any goods, incl meat, fish, fruit, veg, cars, whatever. If they buy import goods, they can insist on certain standards.

Does anyone believe that we won't have to adhere to US standards as they require, to export there? On the other hand, you can bet your botoom Dollar that Trump will insist we buy any c* from them, including hormone feed meat, etc, etc, etc.

I wonder how Canadians will react to US citizens fleeing to Canada to escape Trump’s madness? I predict it could well happen

I also suspect that Canadians (who, extraordinarily enough, are immigrants or descended from immigrants) may be more worried at the moment by Trump than by immigrants.

As yet Trump hasn't put tarrifs on the UK. If he does buy stuff elsewhere. It may be cheaper. He has taken them off Canada and Mexico. He uses them to bully people into submission. He doesn't like it if countries don't do what he says. I've noticed he's not looking well at the moment, he may kick the bucket any time.

Perhaps it's not an "either/or. Ie have a strong opinion on immigration but support his opinions on tariffs?

Wyllow3

rula if you read the Trump thread you will read that the so called "concessions" made by Mexico and Canada were already in the pipeline (Publicly so, as in military on borders). Trump didnt have to threaten.

He settled quickly as the financial markets were threatened with freefall.

He's a mouthy bully.

Ironically, Trudeau is now more popular than he has been for some time.

The spectacle of the big match and usually respectful Canadians Booing the US national anthem will not go away.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZTvivK-dbs

Wyllow3
Unfortunately 65% of the population have turned against his liberal views on immigration.
I listened to a piece on Radio 4 a while back. There have been big demonstrations against his policies.
unherd.com/newsroom/canadians-turn-on-trudeau-over-immigration/

ayse

MaizieD

Completely off topic, but I do wish the mods would correct the title of this thread. It makes ne wince every time I read it.

If OP were to come back I'd ask her to get the mods to change it...🙏

What do you want it changed to?

I think you’d like to change it to “how will they affect us”. I would if this topic hadn’t run out. That’s what come of posting when you are tired.

MaizieD

Completely off topic, but I do wish the mods would correct the title of this thread. It makes ne wince every time I read it.

If OP were to come back I'd ask her to get the mods to change it...🙏

What do you want it changed to?

Sorry my response was to Barleyfields.

I’m not sure that’s true, I think people do listen to Maizie’s view, but those who don’t subscribe to that are not necessarily people who ‘won’t change the minds that have been made up for them anytime soon’. That’s patronising people who think differently but whose views are equally valid, as well as those who are sceptics, and those who go along with whatever their own party’s line is. This applies in the wider world as well as on Gransnet.

But really, this is hijacking the thread. It needs one of its own.

There is only one thing to be done: boycott anything made in America.

Trump is either a bully, or a seriously mentally distrubed person.

If he is capable of rethinking his policy, he will only do so, if if costs the US money.

Remember the years of Apartheid, where most of us refused to buy S. African goods?

We refused to such good purpose that chain stores and supermarkets had to stop buying goods from S. Africa,

Casdon

Barleyfields

Unfortunately Maizie there are, as you know only too well, a great many who have been brainwashed into thinking that there is a huge hole to be filled by taxation and that the country has no money other than tax receipts. I imagine they happily go along with the Reeves philosophy that managing the economy is exactly the same as managing a household budget because it’s something they can identify with. They won’t change the minds that have been made up for them any time soon.

Who are these people you’re referring to Barleyfields? I admit to never hearing anybody say that they believe that running the country’s economy equates in principle or practice to running a household budget.

Well, Thatcher did, for a start.

Let us never forget this fundamental truth: the State has no source of money other than money which people earn themselves. If the State wishes to spend more it can do so only by borrowing your savings or by taxing you more. It is no good thinking that someone else will pay - that 'someone else' is you. There is no such thing as public money; there is only taxpayers' money.

Completely and utterly wrong.

My policies are based not on some economics theory, but on things I and millions like me were brought up with: an honest day's work for an honest day's pay; live within your means; put by a nest egg for a rainy day;

This article examines the influence of her simplistic 'household economy' views. With Thatcher quotes

bylinetimes.com/2019/11/19/thatchers-household-fallacy-led-to-austerity-and-killed-thousands-what-was-the-point-of-it/

Everyone who talks of 'black holes' and the government running out of money (which is most commentators) is subscribing to her view of the economy.

I don't know how you have manged to miss all this...

Wyllow3

Trump has said the UK is "out of line" (in one of those "off the cuff remarks") but not how.

I don't see why we should let him bully and manipulate us.

found on a friends page on Facebook

"'How about Canada building a wall, Mexico building one, and the rest of the world chipping in for a lid?'

Trump: "Everyone's out of step but me!"

Some posts indicate that that’s exactly what they believe. Maizie’s lessons fall on many deaf ears.

Barleyfields

Unfortunately Maizie there are, as you know only too well, a great many who have been brainwashed into thinking that there is a huge hole to be filled by taxation and that the country has no money other than tax receipts. I imagine they happily go along with the Reeves philosophy that managing the economy is exactly the same as managing a household budget because it’s something they can identify with. They won’t change the minds that have been made up for them any time soon.

Who are these people you’re referring to Barleyfields? I admit to never hearing anybody say that they believe that running the country’s economy equates in principle or practice to running a household budget.