Letby didn't murder babies new experts claim.

Imagine if Lucy Letby is innocent! Imagine how she and her parents, friends and relatives must be feeling. The fact that it is babies who died immediately gives them and their families the sympathy vote, and puts Lucy Letby in a bad light.
Juries have even wrong before and there have been terrible miscarriages of justice.
I think we owe it to everyone involved to examine any new evidence so that if LL is guilty there will be no shadow of a doubt, and if she isn't- well, it doesn't bear thinking about what her future will look like.

Oreo

undines

The 'expert' doctor who was pretty much responsible for her conviction, has 'form'. He was involved in the Bonnie Lewis case, in Neath, back in the early part of the century. What happened to that little girl - who was illegally taken from her family - was horrendous. If you are a psychopath and you want to do maximum damage, what profession do you choose? Doctor is a good one, sorry to say.

So is becoming a nurse in a babies unit.

The shadows of Dr Shipman and Beverley Allitt both fall across this case but it does not mean that LL is guilty (or innocent).

A trial with jury would be impossible now, seeing as so many always knew she was innocent, thought there was something odd about the verdict etc etc. We've even had a poor Lucy

So much chatter, trial by jury would be impossible

maddyone

I can neither defend her nor think her conviction correct because I just don’t know. I always thought her guilty from what was presented to us via news outlets, but from what has been said this week, I conclude that I just don’t know.

I agree I feel that I don't know.
It is horrendous for the families but we can't have miscarriages of justice either.
Letby has always maintained her innocence as far as I know. The new expert panel states that the deaths were either natural causes or bad doctoring( substandard medical care).
Has everyone found a convenient scapegoat for bad stats in Letby.??
Funnily (and irrelevantly) enough my OH who literally has no axe to grind has always thought her innocent. He can be spookily" on the money" in these matters.

I can neither defend her nor think her conviction correct because I just don’t know. I always thought her guilty from what was presented to us via news outlets, but from what has been said this week, I conclude that I just don’t know.

I'm pretty sure there will be a retrial. The sheer eminence of those doctors cannot be ignored.

It seems her defence was poor in that they called no expert. The jury only had the opinion of the prosecution’s expert so his evidence would not have been properly challenged and obviously the jury as lay people like ourselves would believe what the expert said. I have no idea if these new experts are talking out of their hats because I have no medical knowledge, but what they say introduces, to my mind, reasonable doubt. Some are very eminent people. I believe the conviction will be declared unsafe on the basis of what they are saying but of course only another expert can say if what they are saying stacks up. I certainly wouldn’t want to be a juror on any retrial. The complexities of what opposing medical experts say would be impossible for most to decide ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ I think.

It is a continuing nightmare for the parents, but wherever there is reasonable doubt, a case MUST be reviewed. I have had doubts about the safety of the conviction for some time. I can only speak for myself of course, but I think if my baby had died, I would rather it was from natural causes than by murder. Nothing will bring those babies back, but l am sure that the continuous speculation must be torture and the sooner the case is resolved one way or another, the sooner the parents will be able to properly grieve and begin to heal.

This is all getting out of hand. Very interesting discussion on Jeremy Vine this morning.

They were discussing this and both Carol Malone and the Labour peer, Baroness Hazarika MBE were giving their point of view

They were both questioning these experts who have appeared. Hazarica isn't happy about this at all.

As has been pointed out, this case took 2 years of hard police work, the CPS agreed there was a case to answer. And a jury found her guilty.

People mention that this was rushed. It wasn't. Then they are trying to say that the hospital wanted to cover up. Cover up what? The death certificates were all released, natural death, prematurity etc etc. The only suspicion was from the staff. Consultants, doctors, nurses. Who tried to blow the whistle and were threatened with dismissal if they didn't apologise . So whose backs were they covering?

Those who claim they know her to be innocent are just deluded. Nobody knows. Least of all people on a social media site.

It's hurtful and damaging. One of the parents has issued a statement saying how devastated they are by this.

I'm pretty sure there won't be a retrial.

We were not on the jury, and did not hear all of the evidence. Experts were not the only witnesses. The jury found her guilty.
Surely they might have a clearer view than we?
Is it not true that survival rates improved on each facility after she left?

Odd they all died on her watch though! Just saying.

Furthermore I think if she had been a plain, verging on ugly young woman there’d be less support for her.

undines

The 'expert' doctor who was pretty much responsible for her conviction, has 'form'. He was involved in the Bonnie Lewis case, in Neath, back in the early part of the century. What happened to that little girl - who was illegally taken from her family - was horrendous. If you are a psychopath and you want to do maximum damage, what profession do you choose? Doctor is a good one, sorry to say.

So is becoming a nurse in a babies unit.

The 'expert' doctor who was pretty much responsible for her conviction, has 'form'. He was involved in the Bonnie Lewis case, in Neath, back in the early part of the century. What happened to that little girl - who was illegally taken from her family - was horrendous. If you are a psychopath and you want to do maximum damage, what profession do you choose? Doctor is a good one, sorry to say.

She didn’t look as though she could possibly be guilty, such a sweet face, but those notebooks were worrying.

I hope she gets released. This could be the biggest miscarriage of justice ever known. It never felt right to me. There was never any evidence just circumstantial and her presence at those times has also been revealed to be false. She was a scapegoat I believe. Covering the backs of the trust the hospital and the doctors.

I really feel for the parents. I'm not a medical professional but when do ' experts' agree on anything? If Lucy Letby is innocent and these babies died of natural causes, why were the deaths raised as being suspicious in the first place? I may have this wrong, but were they not also looking at a second hospital where she worked? There are many questions here which will take greater minds than me to unravel. As others have said, what a distress for the parents.

When she was first convicted I thought she was guilty as hell. Remember those notebooks found at her home as well. However, having read all the “new” reports I have seriously doubts that she was guilty of all the deaths if any. I certainly think it warrants a proper appeal or retrial. The other thing that concerns me is the report of poor overall conditions within the hospital. I think this calls for an inquiry in itself.

There was a lengthy police investigation. Her trial was over 10 months during which the evidence was forensically tested. There was an appeal which reached the same conclusion, guilty.
I hope there hasn’t been a miscarriage of justice and on what we know so far, that seems unlikely.
Those posting ‘poor Lucy…. I always knew she was innocent’ etc would be wise to consider the parents here, as well as all the police/witnesses/jury for whom this will continue to be the stuff of nightmares. They did their best

fancyflowers

She will not be confirmed as to have murdered any babies.

She has been tried and convicted, there was plenty of evidence and her journal and other writings and observations about the parents of the babies which mounted to obsession were all taken into account in court.

Think about all those couple who had lost babies and all their relatives who may well be reading these pages.

Babs03

Ilovedogs22

Babs03

Have changed the title.
And is nothing to do with me.
Take it up with the BBC.
Thank you.

Babs03, please don't take the comments too much to heart.
There are quite a few pedantic, fussy, know-it-all types on Gransnet who can get really ratty & eagerly jump on their grammatical high horse at the merest whiff of an out of place semi -colon ect! 🥴💕

Thanks Ilovedogs, sometimes I do get rubbed up the wrong way, but am soon over it.
xxx

To Babs03
You must realise that my comment on the first page and a similar one from Aldom had zilch to do with pedantry.Your OP heading was ‘Letby Didn’t Murder Babies!’ Since she has been tried and convicted this was a pretty awful heading.You had GNHQ change the heading which is good, but no use you being prickly about it and if you got rubbed up the wrong way then only yourself to blame, as there was no need.

fancyflowers

She will not be confirmed as to have murdered any babies.

We cannot know this, only a retrial will confirm that she is guilty of murdering the babies or find enough reasonable doubt to drop the conviction.
I personally cannot voice an opinion on this, I just don’t know, fact is none of us do.

petra

Would I say there was a coverup by doctors. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility.
How did 4 babies die on that unit in the course of 14 days in 2015. The over the next 12 months 4 more babies died.
The worrying part of that information is that the doctors didn’t inform the authorities that this had accrued. Even though that was against NHS guidelines.
The senior staff were warned that the staffing levels were at a critical level.
So yes, I do think it’s a possibility

Neonatal deaths must be reported as part of the mandatory data set, the information goes anonymously every month and the doctors certainly know this. (although they are not the ones collating the data).
"the authorities" would have known, the trend would have been noted,centrally and by hospital management, the doctors of course didn't inform the authorities as there is a longstanding and mandatory system in place to do this.

She will not be confirmed as to have murdered any babies.