We Need Identity Cards

No we don’t.

We have this boring debate every couple of years or so.

My view hasn’t changed.

escaped

From a practical point of view they would be useful instead of the awkward passport. Especially when travelling: checking into hotels, hiring cars etc. Also, in banking and some shops.

If people refuse to have one to show they are legally a member of a country, then they're the ones with the problem, not me.

It isn't a substitute for a passport, it would not be recognised abroad.

OldFrill

escaped

From a practical point of view they would be useful instead of the awkward passport. Especially when travelling: checking into hotels, hiring cars etc. Also, in banking and some shops.

If people refuse to have one to show they are legally a member of a country, then they're the ones with the problem, not me.

It isn't a substitute for a passport, it would not be recognised abroad.

That's strange ... only very recently I was asked for my "pièce d'identité" in France when they wanted a photo.
I didn't say as a substitute at passport control, I said while acquiring stuff abroad.

It could be something like a store loyalty card and linked to the internet. The only people that won’t want them are those that have something to hide. Everyone working legally and having a mortgage etc has information on them anyway. I still have the one allocated to me when I was born many years ago. Bern a couple of name changes since!

Allsorts wrote:"We need identity cards".

I agree. The higher the proportion of strangers in a society , the more the need for policing.
For instance in the small village where I lived during the 70s there was little or no need for the policeman as people knew each other was up to, whereas it's universally acknowledged that one can hide in a great city.

While I understand the arguments in support of ID cards, my question is as always, about who is entitled to ask to see them. This isn't just about picking up parcels from the Post Office, or visiting a hospital (that's another thread there), it is more who can demand to see "my papers". Who will be asked? White, middle class, retired people? Unlikely. Will I be happy to have someone employed by say, G4S, ask me at random to prove my identity as I wait at a busstop?

DH and I were asking each other what the argument against ID cards was only yesterday. We’d both had medical appointments and showing our ID cards here in Portugal automatically provided the relevant people with all the information they needed.

I would happily have one, and think they should be issued as a matter of course at 16.

Not only should they contain all our personal data, including NI number, they should have National health number and details of allergies.

There could be a chip with detailed medical records, great for emergencies, and next of kin.

I’m not terribly sure though how this will help identify anyone here who shouldn’t be? They are likely to work under the radar, in the black market and/or cash in hand.

So unless we have police on every corner checking all residents ID (mmm
of Nazi Germany!), how will ID help on a large scale?

Barleyfields

If the police had access to details of ID cards, in the same way that they can quickly check if a car is insured/has current MoT/has been cloned they could easily root out forged cards.

Yes! If they’re not going to be issued by the govt and linked to both govt and police computers, no point in having them.

I’m not opposed to them, but I agree with Cossy, I think there would have to be many services you could not access without them for them to be successful. GP, hospital, dentist, optician, recycling centre, parcel collection, access to education, food banks, banks and building societies etc.etc. would all have to demand everybody showed them at every visit and refuse to deal with people who didn’t. That would be a huge culture change, and people who forgot them would suffer if they needed something and had forgotten their card.

PoliticsNerd

And so the hard right flex their power ...

Here we have it, right from the mouth of Starmer, who is quickly demonising anyone in this country who does not agree with his anti democratic stance.

Of course we should have them. You are required to show id when opening a bank account etc and no one objects. If you drive you have to have a licence and if you go abroad you need a passport. No one objects. However, if you no longer drive and no longer go abroad you may not have a passport. How useful an id card would be in that situation. Last year we ordered passport renewals simply for id. Why not an id card ready to be shown perhaps when going into football matches etc etc. of course they could be forged but come on AI surely there could be something unforgivable put on them like bank notes etc.

unforgeable not unforgiveable. Blooming predictive AI. Get your act together.

Not only should they contain all our personal data, including NI number, they should have National health number and details of allergies.
There could be a chip with detailed medical records, great for emergencies, and next of kin.
Indeed. I have one of those from France, called a carte vitale. It shows medical records etc and declares you have paid into the French social security system and are entitled to treatment. It is separate from the identity card.
I don't think it links into any other agencies, Mamie might know, that would be complicated all in the one card.

They’re standard in many countries. A Swedish friend who moved back to Stockholm after over 20 years in the U.K. had to get her ID sorted before she could e.g. get a mobile phone contract or any of umpteen other things.

I have had one for many years in Sweden - never had to show it to the police but used all the time in everyday life as proof of ID - used it twice yesterday to check in for a hospital appointment and to collect packages from the pick up point.

The are also personal civil registration numbers that you are allocated as a citizen or authorised resident - you need your personal number to access healthcare, education, benefits etc

MaizieD

No we don’t.

We have this boring debate every couple of years or so.

My view hasn’t changed.

It's not boring to swap information, ask questions and update ourselves.
Thank you to those who are contributing.

It would be like needing photo ID to vote. That caught some people out! But we are getting used to that.

I know when I said I didn't drive and had never felt the need to travel abroad so had no passport I was looked at with amazement by banks/building society etc staff. But there must be thousands of people who are the same.
Nothing to hide so no worries about having one.

dragonfly46

Yes absolutely. We always carried one in Holland.

What year were Identity cards introduced in the Netherlands please?
I'm interested because we lived there in the sixties and although we had to register at the police station, we did not have Identity cards.

escaped

OldFrill

escaped

From a practical point of view they would be useful instead of the awkward passport. Especially when travelling: checking into hotels, hiring cars etc. Also, in banking and some shops.

If people refuse to have one to show they are legally a member of a country, then they're the ones with the problem, not me.

It isn't a substitute for a passport, it would not be recognised abroad.

That's strange ... only very recently I was asked for my "pièce d'identité" in France when they wanted a photo.
I didn't say as a substitute at passport control, I said while acquiring stuff abroad.

How strange indeed 🧐

escaped

MaizieD

No we don’t.

We have this boring debate every couple of years or so.

My view hasn’t changed.

It's not boring to swap information, ask questions and update ourselves.
Thank you to those who are contributing.

In the last 20 odd years millions have been spent by governmemts, an Act of Parliament passed, and we are no nearer getting them.
Maybe we need a referendum.

loopyloo

It would be like needing photo ID to vote. That caught some people out! But we are getting used to that.

And of course, they could be used for voting etc.

Just a few observations

Because of money laundering rules many financial transactions require us to provide photo identification. Without a passport or driving license this can be difficult if not almost impossible. An ID card would solve this.

Do we know why Tony Blair wanted this? Was it because he opened the doors to immigration and could see the problems.

My local council has something called a Discovery Card which permits local residents to get into council owned tourist attractions for free. You go into the designated council office where they take your photo and issue you with a card. This is free to residents. It’s useful as proof of id for other purposes such as collecting parcels from your parcel shop.

Linking it to NHS information may not be so easy. At present your medical records are not shared across NHS Trusts although you may have thought they were. So if you live in Portsmouth but go to a hospital in Newcastle for example the latter will not have access to your records as there is no centralised storage. If IT cannot sort this out then an ID card may not be as useful as some think.

Casdon

I’m not opposed to them, but I agree with Cossy, I think there would have to be many services you could not access without them for them to be successful. GP, hospital, dentist, optician, recycling centre, parcel collection, access to education, food banks, banks and building societies etc.etc. would all have to demand everybody showed them at every visit and refuse to deal with people who didn’t. That would be a huge culture change, and people who forgot them would suffer if they needed something and had forgotten their card.

In France we certainly don't show them at every visit. Registering at school, registering at a new hospital (subsequent medical appointments involve our health service cards), starting a bank account, buying a house, leasing a car etc.
We carry them all the time in wallet / purse and they are the same size as a bank card.