Next step in overriding female rights!

You really couldn’t make it up

ViceVersa

I urge everyone to read as much as they can about this case, as it has quite far-reaching consequences for all women and girls. This doctor has stated in the tribunal that he is a 'biological woman' and that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept'. The whole case came about after a very experienced nurse said she felt uncomfortable about having to change in the same changing room as Dr Upton. I've been following the tribunal on a daily basis and this doctor's evidence has been quite horrifying.

This doctor has stated in the tribunal that he is a 'biological woman' and that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept'

If biological sex is merely a nebulous concept - then how can this doctor claim to be a biological woman?

The lines would be so blurred that no-one could state with any certainty that they were one or the other.

A private changing space was suggested but Upton's response was:
'This would have been 'othering' for a trans woman and would have required discussion. It's not a decision I get to make.'
[othering: a social process that involves negating another person's individual humanity, leading to their marginalization and the formation of prejudices against them. It often manifests as treating individuals as outsiders or different from a perceived normative group, which can contribute to societal issues such as racism, sexism, and homophobia. ]

If NHS Fife had provided a changing room for women that excluded men (and that includes trans identified men like Dr Upton) there would have been no need for this case. Hospitals are big places, I'm sure NHS Fife could have provided a separate changing room for trans identified men, then there would have been no problem. But, no. NHS Fife had to back those who say men can be women - I find that terrifying in a medical establishment. Even worse, they bullied a nurse who only wanted to get changed in a space free of men. And this is all at our expense, our taxes fund the NHS. Who among us wants to be treated by medical staff who can't define a man or a woman?

Tomorrow is the last day in the tribunal until July. It's a shame that there's such a delay, however Fife NHS withheld information and the doctors lawyer kept interrupting NC with irrelevant points (deemed as such by the judge) hence the delay. I felt a bit sorry for the nurse today. She was newly promoted when all this kicked off and has been hung out to dry by Nhs. However she made cringe worthy blunders regarding the biological difference between men and women.

NanKate

I agree Allira it’s the only thing I have agreed with that DT has done.

Oddly enough I met my friend today whose son is now her daughter. She told me that her daughter said how nervous she was about being attacked in the street.

I wonder if this is something that ever crossed her mind when she was a he ie just how vulnerable women can feel and how intimidating some men can seem?

Nan Kate, he must now understand the harm that males have done to female security. At least he has the option of reverting to the truth.
Incidentally, Lia(r) Thomas (what an accurate name for him) is still whinging that no one, male or female wants him in their team.

I agree Allira it’s the only thing I have agreed with that DT has done.

Oddly enough I met my friend today whose son is now her daughter. She told me that her daughter said how nervous she was about being attacked in the street.

This issue as well as being a mens rights movement, is also frequently about class. People with money and power targeting the workers who fail to meet their demands.

how much longer are we going to continue with this charade?

The harder they push the boundaries, the harder we must push back and stand up for the rights of females.

Referring to your post about Leah Thomas, Terribull, much as I dislike Trump, he has made a start by banning transgender women from female sports.

Another man transwoman in court accused of raping a 13 year old girl, how much longer are we going to continue with this charade ?

As far as the locker room situation is concerned, remember how the female athletes who didn't want to share their very private space with manly transwomen in the US until recently. Those team members who had to put up with Leah Thomas, one example, were told, after being admonished for their prejudicial attitudes, to go and undress in the women's toilets. So there they all were crammed into that space, not intended as a changing room, whilst Lea, bless her unfeminine size 11s yeah try making those smaller and her sometimes visible lady dick appendage had the entire changing room to them selves. .

He's gone further than that though by trying to get her sacked for negligence. A retro fitted complaint made long after the alleged event for which there is no evidence.

ViceVersa exactly

Iam64

Catching up here and so many positive points to appreciate.
This trans woman is behaving like an abusive, entitled, misogynistic man.
It madness thst the ‘rights’ or demands of a minority group over ride the ordinary working rights of women, as clearly happened here.
How very dare he go complaining to the boss and how daft was the boss to prioritise his feelings over those of the nurse

My experience of hospitals is that doctors are given higher status than nurses. Maybe he assumed that as well

Well said Iam64!
Good posts, GrannyGravy, ViceVersa and many others on the thread.
Common sense and biology lessons seem to have completely disappeared and been disregarded in this case. Quite alarming that medical staff have so little knowledge of anatomy.

My experience of hospitals is that doctors are given higher status than nurses. Maybe he assumed that as well
That thought crossed my mind too.

If you've been following the case from the start, Dr Upton's sense of entitlement has been one of the major factors. He comes across as being completely devoid of empathy or compassion and insists that his feelings must come before anyone else's rights. Now, if I'm ill or injured, I don't much care whether the doctor who treats me is male, female or whatever. What I do care about is that they are competent and treat with me with dignity. A doctor who states under oath that biological sex is a 'nebulous construct' does not exactly fill me with trust. And if I was undergoing some procedure where I had asked for a female doctor and got landed with him instead, I don't think I'd be very happy to say the least. He's already said he would treat a patient under those circumstances and would not disclose his trans status. Imagine some poor woman who has been sexually assaulted, for instance, and asks for a female doctor - only to be confronted by Dr Upton. But he thinks her distress in those circumstances isn't as important as his feelings.

Wyllow3

Just to put cross dressers in context - think Greyson Perry who has said but he has no desire to become a female, nor to dress as a woman full-time.

No the majority of cross dressers do not wish they were women -

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9415796/#:~:text=Abstract,percent%20described%20themselves%20as%20heterosexual.

Of the two men I know, one dresses as a woman all of the time and has done so for over 40 years, the other probably 50-50.

Catching up here and so many positive points to appreciate.
This trans woman is behaving like an abusive, entitled, misogynistic man.
It madness thst the ‘rights’ or demands of a minority group over ride the ordinary working rights of women, as clearly happened here.
How very dare he go complaining to the boss and how daft was the boss to prioritise his feelings over those of the nurse

My experience of hospitals is that doctors are given higher status than nurses. Maybe he assumed that as well

Just to put cross dressers in context - think Greyson Perry who has said but he has no desire to become a female, nor to dress as a woman full-time.

No the majority of cross dressers do not wish they were women -

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9415796/#:~:text=Abstract,percent%20described%20themselves%20as%20heterosexual.

I must be rather old fashioned as I believe if you are born a man you die as a man.

In the time between those two inevitables, you can dress how you like, call yourself whatever you like, but and it’s a big but you have absolutely no entitlement to enter women only spaces because you are wearing a dress and lipstick.

I will not be part of the emperors new clothes lie, a man cannot become a women and a women cannot become a man.

We do know to crossdressers (which is what they refer to themselves as not trans) male to female, they are perfectly aware that although they would have preferred to be born as women, they haven’t and are not.

I agree Galaxy, i hope she can be persuaded to keep some to go on a lovely holiday somewhere where she will be totally spoiled.

The more I hear from this tribunal the more I understand why Dr Upton and Fife health authority wanted it heard in private with Dr Upton given anonymity, and the more pleased I am that this request was denied. The world needs to see how disgraceful the treatment of Sandie Peggie has been.

Sandie Peggie is another one of those very brave women who have made a stand, the stress of this kind of situation is incredible, I wish they would use some of the crowdfunder money for themselves.

I do wish people would stop using the pronouns 'she' and 'they' when referring to Dr. Upton; among other things it confuses the issue of whom is being referred to: the Doctor or Sandra Peggie.
He is biologically male however much he considers himself to be a woman. Some of his statements are extremely alarming:
'the term biologically female or biologically male is completely nebulous. I am biological(not a robot) and my identity is female.'
'Some people may be uncomfortable with a transgender person using woman's facilities but that does not override the right of a trans gender person's to access changing rooms that align with their gender identity.'
'People who are uncomfortable with transgender issues hold misinformed, biased, unpleasant or bigoted views.'

Upton was given permission to use the female changing room by a NHS manager, in agreement with an Equality policy. No record of whether this was discussed with the females using it first.
I doubt if this doctor can be struck off for his behaviour as he has done nothing wrong medically involving patient care, but trust is essential between patient and medical staff, and this man has a complete disregard for the truth.
His feelings override medical facts, and it is impossible to place trust in a person who makes that claim.
This whole case, of course, is the result of Nicola Sturgeon's flawed policies on transgender issues.

ViceVersa

In this morning's evidence, the tribunal has been told that the NHS Trust's code of conduct states that one should not 'impose one's views on others' and this was partly what led to Sandie Peggie being suspended. But what was Dr Upton doing if not imposing their views on others? One rule for her, another for Dr Upton, it would seem.

That has always been the case with those male trans who
-insist on inaccurate pronouns
-demand access to female safe spaces
-want to cheat in female sports
-want to be in female prisons
- say they are women, ignoring the fact that women are adult human females.
etc, etc

A lovely letter from Sandie Peggie thanking everyone who has supported her. Money from a Crowdfunder set up by a supporter will be donated to charity. It currently sits at over £30,000 and I truly wish that this brave woman would keep some of it for herself to have a holiday/whatever.

x.com/nicoleepeggiee/status/1889995534888587309?s=12

AGAA4

The case with this doctor is about him saying that a nurse was bullying him as she refused to share a changing room with him.
He says he is female and has as much right to the women's changing rooms as she has.
He walked in on her when she was just in her underwear. She had to leave as he refused to go.
This is on the BBC website.

“Bullying” ? The mote hear about this case, the more im changing my stance from “I wouldn’t care” to “this is outrageous”