Next step in overriding female rights!

Rosie is not extremely prejudiced. Far from it - she has a sound knowledge of biology and can point out the facts in a detached and scientific manner without insulting or casting aspersions on other posters.

Also, Upton's statement is just that - a statement. It is evidence of nothing. Also, as the case is about sex ('gender' is irrelevant here) then people not enquiring about his holidays or favourite colour means about as much as not asking about his sexual orientation or age.

PoliticsNerd

Rosie51

PoliticsNerd is there any evidence any patient has ever asked for Upton's details regarding his medical history, place of residence, sexual orientation or age? I'd call that being verbose when all he needed to say was he thinks his lying about his sex is none of their business. And he is lying, no mammal let alone human has ever changed their DNA from male to female. Sex is determined by DNA not feelings.

I'm really not interested in other people's extreme prejudice Rosie51. I simply reported the actual evidence given as additional information.

Are you trying to imply my knowledge and acceptance of scientific facts is extreme prejudice? I find that very hard to reconcile with your adherence to facts and figures in other areas.

Vice versa not at all. I can see my point was unclear 😊

Yes, I do understand what you mean now, Grandmabatty. I totally agree with you. Apologies if my post came across differently.

Vice versa, I think you maybe misunderstood my point or it was badly put. A woman who has made it clear she wants treated by another woman, could be put in a really difficult position by Upton who insists the patient could just say no. If you are really ill, you might not be fully conscious. How on earth could you say no? His arrogance and lack of empathy was breathtaking. I've known some trans women who quietly get on with their lives. He appeared to have a particular fetish and demanded women in the changing room as part of that. Sandie was already in the changing room when he entered. He could have left and gone back when she had changed but he wanted validation for his particular fetish

What extreme prejudice are you talking about. I believe men cannot become women.

Rosie51

PoliticsNerd is there any evidence any patient has ever asked for Upton's details regarding his medical history, place of residence, sexual orientation or age? I'd call that being verbose when all he needed to say was he thinks his lying about his sex is none of their business. And he is lying, no mammal let alone human has ever changed their DNA from male to female. Sex is determined by DNA not feelings.

I'm really not interested in other people's extreme prejudice Rosie51. I simply reported the actual evidence given as additional information.

I feel exactly the same way. I have nothing against trans people whatsoever. I have a friend with a trans child. However, like you, I don't want to see women marginalised or demeaned, nor have the rights that we (and previous generations) fought so hard for to simply be swept aside.

Exactly ViceVersa on the legal definition of rape. I’ve read of victims having to refer to their rapist as ‘she’, ‘her penis’. I’m genuinely puzzled as to how this could have happened. Pandering to a small but vocal group of trans activists.
I don’t want to see trans people forced into hiding. I don’t want women marginalised and demeaned .

Absolutely, Iam64. If I'm thinking of the same case you are talking about, it's being reported that a 'woman' has been charged with rape, which is factually incorrect. The law states that "A rape is when a person uses their penis without consent to penetrate the vagina, mouth, or anus of another person. Legally, a person without a penis cannot commit rape, but a female may be guilty of rape if they assist a male perpetrator in an attack."

apparently someone who is tri- gender

Do you mean the wonderful Samantha Kane, self titled Lady Carbisdale

Someone in government needs to get brave and say what Galaxy did
I recall previous threads on this where gender critical feminists were told that in the 1960’s we’d have been anti gay men. Nonsense of course but reflecting the distorted thinking around this.
Another ‘transwoman’ has been charged with sexual offences against a boy child and adult women. The alleged crimes recorded as being committed by a woman because that’s how this (alleged) predator describes itself.
It’s going to distort statistics and make it appear women are becoming more dangerous
Is it too much to ask for a trans man/woman category> or record XX is male and identifies as female. Yes, it clearly is

It is not possible to live and let live if men use female spaces, the whole be kind thing is why we are where we are. The answer is no. Whatever these men feel, whatever they have done to their bodies, however quietly they are living their lives, the answer remains no.

Wyllow 3 💖

I’m usually of the opinion that live and let live, had I been in this nurses position I would have done and felt the same, female spaces are for females and we should not give in to delusional males.

Sorry, didnt dare speak up not did.

Chocolatelovinggran

I have posted before that I had a (wonderful) transgender GP for many years.
She led a very low profile life, and the group practice in which she worked were completely ok if patients said that they would prefer nor to be treated by Dr X.
Transgender acceptance is not best served by entitled, demanding people like Dr Upton.

I agree.

My heart sinks when the Dr Uptons of this world create problems needlessly by not respecting others and making demands - and statements - that can only inflame as well as being inaccurate (demanding its "biological")

Because it creates an intolerance for people like Chocolatelovinggrans doctor and others who respect boundaries and live peacefully amongst us.

I had the experience 15 years ago of being groped by a male A and E doctor (no, I did dare speak up) but dont assume "they're all like that".

I am not convinced how this one will go but the record of gender critical wins via the legal system is pretty good. And the publicity which has highlighted the Male entitlement of this movement has been invaluable.

PoliticsNerd is there any evidence any patient has ever asked for Upton's details regarding his medical history, place of residence, sexual orientation or age? I'd call that being verbose when all he needed to say was he thinks his lying about his sex is none of their business. And he is lying, no mammal let alone human has ever changed their DNA from male to female. Sex is determined by DNA not feelings.

Aveline

There are more nuanced details than Dr Upton's grandiose verbosity.

What was "verbose" or "grandiose" in the quote I reported? They simply explain what is true - or is that your problem? Strange use of those words. In the end it is for the court to decide, not us.

I have posted before that I had a (wonderful) transgender GP for many years.
She led a very low profile life, and the group practice in which she worked were completely ok if patients said that they would prefer nor to be treated by Dr X.
Transgender acceptance is not best served by entitled, demanding people like Dr Upton.

Arrogant is the description I would use.

ViceVersa

I urge everyone to read as much as they can about this case, as it has quite far-reaching consequences for all women and girls. This doctor has stated in the tribunal that he is a 'biological woman' and that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept'. The whole case came about after a very experienced nurse said she felt uncomfortable about having to change in the same changing room as Dr Upton. I've been following the tribunal on a daily basis and this doctor's evidence has been quite horrifying.

It's amazing that a medically trained professional person can say they are 'biologically' a woman - how has this person changed their chromosomes? They are the warp and weft, the very fabric of our being, and as far as my medical knowledge goes, cannot be altered by surgery or chemical therapy. As you say, quite horrifying.

It's as well to remember this is the man capable of insisting he is now a 'biological female', happy to intimidate actual females in changing rooms, when challenged by Sandie Peggie he fled in tears, shaking, fearful for his 'safety'. Had to race round the unit to find the on duty consultant to demonstrate his upset and be escorted to his car. Yet he stood up to being questioned, 'misgendered', challenged as a liar by a KC, and remained confident, nay smug even.

I also agree.