Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

I agree- Putin has no control over NATO, and therefore fears it.
Putin does not understand collaborative agencies who also respect the sovereignty of individual states. He, like Trump, only sees the world in terms of one powerful agent against another. This has always been the Russian way.

Putin thought he could march into Ukraine and take Kyiv in a few days. He was very wrong but he still has to save face by keeping the Ukrainian territorities he has already gained.

Meanwhile can Ukraine hand over its taken territory to Russia? The fear is it will not appease Putin, who will only lick his supposed wounds before planning some other tactic to take Ukraine back?

Putin is a monster the west cannot trust at all.

”If Ukraine is not going to be a NATO member why would Putin allow NATO troops in Ukraine”

David I repeat the question I asked you earlier on this thread, what has it got to do with Putin who sets foot on the sovereign soil of Ukraine?

How can Putin allow / not allow troops into Ukraine? As long as they don’t touch Russian soil, it’s got nothing to do with him.

On the BBC it states that today’s meeting is to establish relations between the US and Russia. It is unlikely they will get into Ukraine today.

AGAA4

Wyllow3

BBC reports

"Russia says no role for Europe in Ukraine peace talks, as European leaders meet in Paris"

Says it all, doesn't it, as to how the US and Russia have cooked up the situation between them?

Not surprising really. Putin wants Ukraine to be part of the USSR and won't accept that Europe should be involved.
His main aim has been to regain the USSR.

There will be need for a peace keeping troops, maybe UN may be an independant country, India, Brazil or similar.

If Ukraine is not going to be a NATO member why would Putin allow NATO troops in Ukraine.

Whitewavemark2

It is like the U.K. and Germany carving up Africa.

France. Belgium and Italy too

Wyllow3

BBC reports

"Russia says no role for Europe in Ukraine peace talks, as European leaders meet in Paris"

Says it all, doesn't it, as to how the US and Russia have cooked up the situation between them?

Not surprising really. Putin wants Ukraine to be part of the USSR and won't accept that Europe should be involved.
His main aim has been to regain the USSR.

Both Russia and China.. The world is being bought up by the 3 superpowers..

I am surprised to read that Russia is also in Africa. Wwm2. Why I don’t know!

It is like the U.K. and Germany carving up Africa.

BBC reports

"Russia says no role for Europe in Ukraine peace talks, as European leaders meet in Paris"

Says it all, doesn't it, as to how the US and Russia have cooked up the situation between them?

It was a trading partnership until the Maastricht agreement.
That changed the whole demographics of our relationship with the EU.

I don't think that 'demographics' is quite the word you were looking for, Petra. Demographics concerns the make up of a population, which, of course, remained quite unaffected by Maastricht. Perhaps 'dynamics' would be ore apt.

There was always a political element to the EU, as part of the original purpose of it was to counter the rise of authoritarian, undemocratic, governments such as those which precipitated WW2. Which is why Orban is such a problem for the EU at the moment. It has always been as much a peace project as a trading arrangement.

Any serious historian of Europe will tell you this (as opposed to authoritarian demagogues)

Wan’t Maastricht the result of inept negotiations by the Conservative government ( Conservative governments supposedly being far better at handling the economy than Labour) under John Major and was only partly supported by Labour at the time?

petra

MayBee70

Wasn’t the initial reason for setting up the EU to maintain peace in Europe after WWII? Brexit was imo part of a plan to destabilise Europe.I still question what Cummings did in the time he spent in Russia.So many people and organisations worked towards Brexit eg Cambridge Analytica. Strange that, when it suits people they describe the EU as ‘just a trading partnership’and yet, at other times the accusation is that it had become more than that and it took away our sovereignty and was therefore a valid reason for leaving it.

It was a trading partnership until the Maastricht agreement.
That changed the whole demographics of our relationship with the EU.

Exactly petra

I had no problems with the trading agreement, Maastricht however, should never of happened without asking the country.

MayBee70

Wasn’t the initial reason for setting up the EU to maintain peace in Europe after WWII? Brexit was imo part of a plan to destabilise Europe.I still question what Cummings did in the time he spent in Russia.So many people and organisations worked towards Brexit eg Cambridge Analytica. Strange that, when it suits people they describe the EU as ‘just a trading partnership’and yet, at other times the accusation is that it had become more than that and it took away our sovereignty and was therefore a valid reason for leaving it.

It was a trading partnership until the Maastricht agreement.
That changed the whole demographics of our relationship with the EU.

Claremont

GrannyGravy13

Claremont

Photos are re-emerging of Farage with Aleksandr Yakovenko, Russian Ambassador in UK 2011-2019. Mr Yakovenko said 'we have crused the British to the grond and they will not rise for a very long time'.

Anyone who thinks that Brexit was not one of the many steps towards a very deliberate weakening of Europe, to divide and rule, must be very naive.

It is getting clearer by the day that so many events, apparently separate, of the past decade, are all linked and orchestrated to achieve the current scenario.

But Brexit hasn’t divided Europe, the UK left a trading union.

The U.K. is not crushed.

The UK is part of Europe, our armed forces have continued to train alongside EU member countries.

Europe is as strong as it has ever been.

Europe has been very divided- tragically what is happening now will probably bring them together. Many of us strongly believe that Brexit has weakened Europe, and the UK even much more so.

The UK is floating out there, neither clearly part of one, and desperately needing the other - and will have to make a clear choice.

I sincerely hope so Claremont and agree with MayBee about the initial reasons for setting up the EU.. we are at a very critical point now and need a really strong leadership and cohesion from all the European heads of state..

Wasn’t the initial reason for setting up the EU to maintain peace in Europe after WWII? Brexit was imo part of a plan to destabilise Europe.I still question what Cummings did in the time he spent in Russia.So many people and organisations worked towards Brexit eg Cambridge Analytica. Strange that, when it suits people they describe the EU as ‘just a trading partnership’and yet, at other times the accusation is that it had become more than that and it took away our sovereignty and was therefore a valid reason for leaving it.

GrannyGravy13

Claremont

Photos are re-emerging of Farage with Aleksandr Yakovenko, Russian Ambassador in UK 2011-2019. Mr Yakovenko said 'we have crused the British to the grond and they will not rise for a very long time'.

Anyone who thinks that Brexit was not one of the many steps towards a very deliberate weakening of Europe, to divide and rule, must be very naive.

It is getting clearer by the day that so many events, apparently separate, of the past decade, are all linked and orchestrated to achieve the current scenario.

But Brexit hasn’t divided Europe, the UK left a trading union.

The U.K. is not crushed.

The UK is part of Europe, our armed forces have continued to train alongside EU member countries.

Europe is as strong as it has ever been.

Europe has been very divided- tragically what is happening now will probably bring them together. Many of us strongly believe that Brexit has weakened Europe, and the UK even much more so.

The UK is floating out there, neither clearly part of one, and desperately needing the other - and will have to make a clear choice.

The words quoted are those of Yakovenko, not mine. And I do believe that was the plan, hence all the interference from so many directions.

The strongest member left a strong economic union.

That weakened the EU.

However, I’m getting more confident that that position will soon be rectified, even if it is not a full return.

Claremont

Photos are re-emerging of Farage with Aleksandr Yakovenko, Russian Ambassador in UK 2011-2019. Mr Yakovenko said 'we have crused the British to the grond and they will not rise for a very long time'.

Anyone who thinks that Brexit was not one of the many steps towards a very deliberate weakening of Europe, to divide and rule, must be very naive.

It is getting clearer by the day that so many events, apparently separate, of the past decade, are all linked and orchestrated to achieve the current scenario.

But Brexit hasn’t divided Europe, the UK left a trading union.

The U.K. is not crushed.

The UK is part of Europe, our armed forces have continued to train alongside EU member countries.

Europe is as strong as it has ever been.

Photos are re-emerging of Farage with Aleksandr Yakovenko, Russian Ambassador in UK 2011-2019. Mr Yakovenko said 'we have crused the British to the grond and they will not rise for a very long time'.

Anyone who thinks that Brexit was not one of the many steps towards a very deliberate weakening of Europe, to divide and rule, must be very naive.

It is getting clearer by the day that so many events, apparently separate, of the past decade, are all linked and orchestrated to achieve the current scenario.

I do support Starmer in his statement that British troops should have a peacekeeping role in Ukraine, and I assume they will be joined by other European troops.

Mamie

I trust the opinion of Peter Ricketts (former diplomat and security adviser on this) and he says not a European Army, but Armies working together in co-operation as they already do.

Exactly, I totally agree

David49

M0nica

I think Europe is working very hard to make sure that it does not need to buy gas from Russia anytime in the future.

'Drill,baby, drill' may be our best way out of Russian dependence. As would be developing our own gas resources in the North Sea. Europe buying gas from us and Norway and not buying it from Russia, will not increase our diminishing emissions because what we take out of the ground will be balanced with what Putin has to leave in the ground because it has no market.

Agree entirely (for a change), that doesn’t stop the environmental nutters, trying to stop gas drilling, we should aim to be energy independant as soon as possible.

Not a very good future for our GC's either extreme climate change events or death by war..

David
”Putin isnt going to accept a troops from a NATO country policing any ceasefire zone, that’s totally unrealistic”

Why is this unrealistic?

Surely any peace keeping troops would be on Ukrainian soil - not Russian? It really isn’t anything to do with Putin who sets foot on sovereign Ukrainian land.

It looks like Trump’s going to ‘negotiate’ away part of Ukraine to Putin anyway, but the rest of Ukraine will be Ukrainian - so none of Putin’s business.

It seems to me we’re too ready to say “Putin won’t accept this or that”. That’s how and why bullies win!