Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

Posting this again. Time is never wasted by checking facts.

Why so gleeful FGT? And where did your alternative facts come from?

It sounds like Trump wants to replace Zelensky presumably with a more Trump friendly leader. Certainly all the talk about a lack of elections and Zelensky’s drop in ratings points towards this. And the new leader will probs be more pro Putin as well.

Wyllow3 I was only responding to the FGT's cousins comments re Zelenskyy and his finances.

Obviously lots of other misinformation there.

KEY MOMENTS
Updated 1 minute ago
3:00pm
Zelensky accuses Trump of ‘disinformation’
2:01pm
Macron rules out sending French combat troops to Ukraine’s front line
12:15pm
Watch: Trump says that Ukraine ‘should have never started’ the war
11:30am
Ukraine hits back at Trump over claims Kyiv started war with Russia
10:57am
US has helped bring Russia out of global isolation, says Zelensky

FGT - fake news plus some distorted choices to concoct a "truth social narrative"

- the giveaway (apart from actual lies) is

the Trump/Reform version you use to describe the EU as a "left wing empire" - straight out of far right text book ideology. Load of baloney, as Judge J would say

for example - fact checks on purported wealth
www.dw.com/en/fact-check-new-fakes-on-zelenskyys-purported-wealth/a-69552392

For example - "refused to call elections" - Like UK in WW2, as you pointed out yourself upthread, in severe war conditions elections are not held, and it was enshrined in Ukraine Law in 2015

*for example - a key part of the thinking is that the EU deliberately plotted a change in direction of Ukraine.
Ukraine decided that itself by a democratically elected government and hardly surprising after Russian incursions into Crimea in 2014*

Well, from world pariah/war monger to best buds with the POTUS, that is a helluva turn around. Putin and Netanyahu must be thinking of just what they can get away with now. Happy days.

I can’t remember either NotSpaghetti. 🤔

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An alternative take on all this ….
(I’m not saying I agree with all of it.). My cousin & Himself WhatsApp last night.

“I cannot understand why people cannot see this for what it is.

Ukraine was neutral back in 2012, since that point the EU tried to lure the Ukraine into the union with the offer of cheap loans, the Russians eager to keep Ukraine neutral offered cheap gas. The then incumbent PM decided to remain on the cheap gas deal with Russia and stay neutral.

The EU (along with Obama) then decided regime change was needed and there was an uprising and a change of leader. This was the start of it.

Now millions have died, and all because the EU decided to use US money and the threat of NATO to get their hands on Ukraine’s minerals etc.

The US having spend c £300 billion now under Trump that they want their money back and war isn’t the way forward. The EU doesn’t like this as it thought their “left wing Empire” would be added to.

People have deluded themselves that this is about honor, freedom and democracy when it’s really about land, cash and minerals.

Zelensky has squirreled away millions and was a soap actor, who has imprisoned his political opponents and refused to hold elections.
As for Russia, they couldn’t take Ukraine much less Europe”

It’s complicated isn’t it? Viewpoints are numerous.

Isn't this all about the Pandora Papers, FriedGreenTomatoes*?

Wasn't he disinvesting/ or maybe already had at the time of publication?

Can't remember the details. He had money from the production company held in Cyprus I think??

I NEVER thought I would hear myself say this .. but I *agree with Boris Johnson*:

“Boris Johnson has called on Europe to "get serious" about supporting Ukraine and defending itself from Russia…”
(Sky News online)

If Russia couldn't take Ukraine why did it even try? And why would Putin be so terrified of NATO?

Putin must be breaking open his very finest vodka and caviar today. He no longer needs to pump out his own propaganda - he can sit back and watch Trump on TV delivering it for him!

An alternative take on all this ….
(I’m not saying I agree with all of it.). My cousin & Himself WhatsApp last night.

“I cannot understand why people cannot see this for what it is.

Ukraine was neutral back in 2012, since that point the EU tried to lure the Ukraine into the union with the offer of cheap loans, the Russians eager to keep Ukraine neutral offered cheap gas. The then incumbent PM decided to remain on the cheap gas deal with Russia and stay neutral.

The EU (along with Obama) then decided regime change was needed and there was an uprising and a change of leader. This was the start of it.

Now millions have died, and all because the EU decided to use US money and the threat of NATO to get their hands on Ukraine’s minerals etc.

The US having spend c £300 billion now under Trump that they want their money back and war isn’t the way forward. The EU doesn’t like this as it thought their “left wing Empire” would be added to.

People have deluded themselves that this is about honor, freedom and democracy when it’s really about land, cash and minerals.

Zelensky has squirreled away millions and was a soap actor, who has imprisoned his political opponents and refused to hold elections.
As for Russia, they couldn’t take Ukraine much less Europe”

It’s complicated isn’t it? Viewpoints are numerous.

I wonder what would happen if Zelensky started talking to China. They have minerals the USA wants after all....

Parsley3

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

A bit of fact checking never goes amiss.

Good fact check there.

I wonder if Kellogg comes back and reports how much support Zelensky has and the state of Russian attacks on key points (like water supply or power stations) but Zelensky still has support, whether Trump will just lie some more.

The elderly Keith Kellogg, U.S. President Donald Trump's Ukraine envoy, is in Ukraine today in order (it's said) to gather local opinions and visit sites.

Read about it in direct Kiev news
kyivindependent.com/trumps-envoy-kellogg-arrives-in-kyiv/

"Kellogg is visiting Kyiv shortly after the U.S. and Russian delegations held talks on ending the war in Saudi Arabia — without Ukraine's participation. Zelensky stressed that Ukraine would not accept the conclusions of talks carried out behind its back.

Trump's Ukraine envoy previously met with Zelensky and other top Ukrainian officials during the Munich Security Conference to discuss the war and the U.S.-proposed memorandum on Ukraine's rare earth minerals.

Recent developments indicate that Kellogg is being sidelined in Trump's peace efforts as he was not involved in the talks in Saudi Arabia.
Some experts attribute this to Kellogg's pro-Ukraine stances and Russia's alleged objections to him.

So he's just sent as a straw man?

Incidentally, it's interesting to look at the news headlines on the front page of this Kiev newspaper. Lies exposed and titbits....

"US provided Ukraine with $100 billion in aid, not $500 billion, Zelensky says. "

"Russia offering US deal on natural resources, access to Arctic. Moscow suggested that American oil companies may return to the country, Russian negotiator Kirill Dmitriev said before the talks started in Riyadh"

Well I don't think that " welfare" or " woke" has anything to do with anything here, so I would like that set aside.
When the Putin/ Trump romance has annexed Ukraine, a confident Mr Putin will be drawing up a little shopping list of other places he wants, particularly those with useful stuff on his wish list, like minerals .
The Finnish people will be anxious, and rightly so. I don't offer a solution because I fear that it's all over.
Russians have to support their President, as they have no mechanism for dissent, and sufficient numbers of Americans will follow their leader wherever and whatever he does, because he's going to Make America Great Again.
This unholy alliance fills me with terror .

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

A bit of fact checking never goes amiss.

We can compare with the situation in 1940 when Hitler threatened to invade, the RAF retained air superiority and the threat ended. The UK was producing most of its own weapons at that time, despite the losses at Dunkirk we won the Battle of Britain. As we know France and the Low Countries submitted quickly.
That is a big difference to fighting for 3 yrs the enemy is established and it has become a war of attrition, escalating the war to take the land back against a determined enemy will be very costly

Well - I listened to radio 5’s clip of Trump’s statement. He is setting out the Russian position and his support for it.
His “fake news’ cries have led us to the position where the Potus can lie with impunity and talk absolute distorted nonsense

David49, no posters who aren’t fall in in and accepting Trump’s Russian Truth is nit looking to go to war with Russia. We went a peaceful solution. That won’t be achieved by Trump and his buddy getting a solution that only suits Russia.

Anyone who isn’t scared by Trump’s behaviour on this and other important stuff, isn’t looking at all the facts

Someone like Trump who cannot engage his brain before he speaks should be nowhere near negotiations of any sort.
Time and time again he proves that he does not have a grasp of the situation. For this reason he is a real danger to the world.

Cossy

Honestly, those of you here who appear to agree with Trump and Putin need to give your heads a wobble! Likewise anyone using this group to yet again slate the EU and “the wokes” (yawn)

It’s all so disrespectful and frankly hypocritical.

Good job our forebears didn’t take this attitude during WW2!

Totally agree Cossy. We have a load of GBNews Quislings, so that was money well spent by the Russian disinformation machine. By now it's obvious that Trump is Putin's poodle, his culture wars was straight out of the KGB/GRU playbook to destabilise foreign powers.

David49

There are 2 choices

Escalate the war which is going to cost £hundreds of billions and tens of thousands of lives and risk a nuclear strike.

OR

End it now and get the best deal we can.

Every war has a winner and a looser unlike many on GN I don’t relish a full scale war with Russia, Napoleon and Hitler tried that. Better to accept defeat and put the effort into helping rebuild.

If Putin came for the UK or any other county how much land would you give him to try to appease him David?

Honestly, those of you here who appear to agree with Trump and Putin need to give your heads a wobble! Likewise anyone using this group to yet again slate the EU and “the wokes” (yawn)

It’s all so disrespectful and frankly hypocritical.

Good job our forebears didn’t take this attitude during WW2!

Parsley3

^Frankly, anyone who isn't frightened, isn't listening.^

I totally agree. This Trump/Putin partnership will not have a good outcome for Ukraine or any of us.

Yes