Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

😄😄 comment on bluesky

This is master negotiating. He really has Putin on the ropes. One more unprompted unilateral concession and Putin will surely crack

GG13, you may be right. The timing was a little unnerving.

If the US oppose Ukraine becoming a Nato member then it keeps them out.
Am not sure if it’s a good thing or not but in any case it was unlikely to happen just in four years and by then a different President may have a different point of view.

Whitewavemark2

Starmer has reiterated his support of Ukraine joining NATO.

I think it makes sense too..

The bluesky comment makes me think of the Canada "deal" WWM

I would support Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia says if they did no ceasefire, what would you do.

A cease fire with Ukraine secure in NATO is the best outcome, unless Europe decides to go it alone and fight on second best is going to happen.

So why did people vote for the Brexit disaster?
Because people wanted control of our borders-though of course it didn’t work.

David49

I would support Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia says if they did no ceasefire, what would you do.

A cease fire with Ukraine secure in NATO is the best outcome, unless Europe decides to go it alone and fight on second best is going to happen.

The most important thing in any deal is for Ukraine to have guaranteed sovereignty.

Casdon

David49

I would support Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia says if they did no ceasefire, what would you do.

A cease fire with Ukraine secure in NATO is the best outcome, unless Europe decides to go it alone and fight on second best is going to happen.

The most important thing in any deal is for Ukraine to have guaranteed sovereignty.

Yes ,if NATO membership cannot be agreed then a UN monitoring force is going to be needed to prevent disputes breaking out.

Whitewavemark2

😄😄 comment on bluesky

*This is master negotiating. He really has Putin on the ropes. One more unprompted unilateral concession and Putin will surely crack*

I don't understand what this means, anyone?

Zelensky is due to address the whole conference later today. But as he says, "President Volodymyr Zelensky says he can't see a "ready US plan" to end the war in Ukraine, as he arrives at the Munich Security Conference"

Trouble is, all Hesketh has actually said gives us no clue as to "peace talks",

Trump is playing a cat and mouse game depending on moves the we/NATO make

all he has said summarised in news conference this morning

"He stands by his contentious comments in Brussels earlier this week that Ukraine joining Nato is "unlikely" as that any return to the country’s pre-2014 borders.

But Hegseth says the terms of any peace negotiations to end the fighting in Ukraine are up to Trump, not him.

The main message Hegseth has brought here is that European countries need to spend more on defence.

Poland, he says, is a "model ally" as it leads by example. Remember, Warsaw has massively increased defence spending in recent years, with around 5% of its GDP now being spent on the military.
Hegseth says other European countries should take a leaf out of Poland’s book."

although Putin seems to have a lot of cards, I dont really he can tolerate an endless war. Too many young Russian men dying, he's bringing in north Korean troops

Wyllow - and others.
Here's a link to live updates at Munich.

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/feb/14/russia-ukraine-war-peace-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy-donald-trump-munich-security-conference-europe-news

Wyllow3

although Putin seems to have a lot of cards, I dont really he can tolerate an endless war. Too many young Russian men dying, he's bringing in north Korean troops

Russian population 150m, Ukraine 40m, in a war of attrition Ukraine looses.

Only if others (us) back Ukraine 100% and accept the cost in lives and economic hardship it’s not going to happen.

David49

Casdon

David49

I would support Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia says if they did no ceasefire, what would you do.

A cease fire with Ukraine secure in NATO is the best outcome, unless Europe decides to go it alone and fight on second best is going to happen.

The most important thing in any deal is for Ukraine to have guaranteed sovereignty.

Yes ,if NATO membership cannot be agreed then a UN monitoring force is going to be needed to prevent disputes breaking out.

But apparently a UN peacekeeping Monitoring Force cannot fight..so what happens if Russia starts attacking again?

It’s not quite like that though David49. What Putin is doing is very unpopular in Russia itself, he is having to conscript from North Korea to keep his troop numbers high, and Russia is under economic pressure because it’s been isolated. He doesn’t hold as many cards as you imply.

pascal30

David49

Casdon

David49

I would support Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia says if they did no ceasefire, what would you do.

A cease fire with Ukraine secure in NATO is the best outcome, unless Europe decides to go it alone and fight on second best is going to happen.

The most important thing in any deal is for Ukraine to have guaranteed sovereignty.

Yes ,if NATO membership cannot be agreed then a UN monitoring force is going to be needed to prevent disputes breaking out.

But apparently a UN peacekeeping Monitoring Force cannot fight..so what happens if Russia starts attacking again?

UN peacekeepers reserve the rights to return fire if attacked, they are not toothless

Casdon

It’s not quite like that though David49. What Putin is doing is very unpopular in Russia itself, he is having to conscript from North Korea to keep his troop numbers high, and Russia is under economic pressure because it’s been isolated. He doesn’t hold as many cards as you imply.

So you would back us fighting directly boots on the ground and accept missile and drone strikes on the UK.

How did you make the leap from me disputing your version of events to telling me what my view is?

They can only defend themselves.. they would easily be overwhelmed by Russia.. Much better for Ukraine to be part of NATO and have the full force of 30 countries behind it..

Good point. Trump has to convince all that its a lasting peace with viable back up in place.

As always, it boils down to money. America resents paying money to defend Europe. Apparently only Poland pay their fare share. Other European countries do not. This is sabre rattling to make sure the European countries pay up and, as Hegseth put it not to rely on Uncle Sucker. Wars are always about money. Selling arms, death and total destruction, rebuilds. This is not 1939, the world has moved on. Trump, for all his faults, sees no point in bailing out European nations any longer.

The US pays more to NATO for a reason, because up until Trump became President it was seen as a necessary buffer against arch enemy Russia, and the US wanted bases in European countries and funded them accordingly for the same reason, it was never a question of largesse on behalf of the US. Now, however, it doesn’t seem to matter very much whether Russia has expansionist desires, because the US are defanging Ukraine and by opposing NATO or refusing to pay into it, are defanging Europe as well.
So, if the US truly want to take this to its natural conclusion I would advise them to get their bases the hell out of the UK and Europe. Europe should unite in defending themselves against Russia and the US.

Which will cost Europe more money than they are willing to pay.

Casdon

How did you make the leap from me disputing your version of events to telling me what my view is?

OK so would you support the UK backing Ukraine 100% boots on the ground accepting the cost and losses

A simple yes or no answer will do.

If you look up what countries actually pay in I think some of the difference is about what they can afford.

I only seriously thought about this last year when I finally "got" that 2% of very little may be much more significant than 5% of a lot.

It's all relative.
And calculated differently.
I did read a couple of papers on this but don't trust myself to remember it. It's not there if you are interested.

...of course fairness is not one of Trump's strong points!