Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

No offsetting deal.

Read carefully.

www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3806792/biden-zelenskyy-sign-10-year-bilateral-security-agreement/#:~:text=President%20Joe%20Biden%20and%20Ukrainian,deterring%20aggression%20in%20the%20future.

Churchview

fancythat

I havent read the whole thread, and perhaps I should.

At the end of the day, and perhaps I am wrong, and perhaps this has already been pointed out, but the US didnt have to have already spent $billions?

So, not blackmail?

Do you prefer the term coercion?

Yes.

Casdon

Why don’t you find out and report back ronib?

Casdon have started to empty the loft and it’s harder than I thought. Bit brain dead tonight …..

ronib

What understanding did Biden have with Ukraine at the very beginning of the war? Were any documents signed which offset the cost of war I wonder? Or were the billions spent in the free gift category? How will we ever know either way?

It’s irrelevant ronib. We have a new king in charge who has no regard for anything but what he sees in any given moment, as the Besy Deal fir the Trump Dynasty

Yes you’re right Iam64 but where does that leave contract law in the USA for example? It also implies that any legal documents can only be counted on for the duration of the presidential term so pointless signing for 10 years?

The key issue here is we have an unethical liar in the WhiteHouse. Previous Presidents have all been capable of lies and haven’t always been entirely ethical but Mr Trump lies as easily as he breathes, is proud of his disdain for ethics / he’s a danger to the world

I think ronib has a very good point.
Was thinking it myself.
I have no idea how these types of things work.

The contract I posted above describes in detail a mutual security pact.

It is not relevant to what came from the USA Foreign aid budget.

The US Agency for International Development (USAID) disbursed nearly $44 billion in 2023, with over 60% of that going to Ukraine

*USAID also provided aid to the Middle East and Africa, including Ethiopia, Jordan, Afghanistan, and Somalia.
The US provided more than $15 million in new spending to the South Pacific in 2024 to help with climate change, economic growth, and natural disaster resilience*

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country

Trump of course has closed USAID as one of his executive orders.

More detail on finance to Ukraine as well as USAID money.

USAID money goes on

"The majority of USAID funds fill up Ukraine’s budget and keep the country’s government running by paying salaries to state employees. A fraction of those funds address humanitarian projects of one sort or another"

"The State Department also supports development initiatives in Ukraine through its Economic Support Funds and provides aid to Ukrainian refugees".

In addition to USAID its very complicated

www.lawfaremedia.org/article/how-america-s-aid-to-ukraine-actually-works

Only a small percentage of the overall aid package takes the form of cash transfers to Kyiv; the vast majority goes right back into the U.S. economy.

Part of the article

"American Money Stays in America

Those who oppose America’s aid to Ukraine like to criticize the Biden administration for “funding foreign wars.”

Yet most Ukraine aid bills fund America’s local industries.

The vast majority of U.S. Ukraine-related funding does not go directly to Ukraine; it stays in the U.S. economy, subsidizing the production of weapons in at least 31 states and 71 cities

While Ukraine gets most of the aid in the form of old American weapons pulled from U.S. reserves, it’s American workers at American companies that make new weapons to replenish them.

America’s military-industrial complex also restocks inventories of its NATO allies who similarly help Ukraine.

Not only does this revitalize the communities around large manufacturing plants in mostly Republican states, but it has created so many high-level jobs that some places are struggling to find enough qualified workers. "

Finally, in December 2024:

"https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2744#:~:text=Press%20Contacts-,Treasury%20Department%20Announces%20Disbursement%20of%20%2420%20Billion%20Loan%20to%20Benefit,from%20Immobilized%20Russian%20Sovereign%20Assets

Treasury Department Announces Disbursement of $20 Billion Loan to Benefit Ukraine, To Be Repaid with Proceeds Earned from Immobilized Russian Sovereign Assets

and this is what the US government said about it:

These funds – paid for by the windfall proceeds earned from Russia’s own immobilized assets –

will provide Ukraine a critical infusion of support as it defends its country against an unprovoked war of aggression

said Secretary of the Treasury Janet L. Yellen.

The $50 billion collectively being provided by the G7 through this initiative will help ensure Ukraine has the resources it needs to sustain emergency services, hospitals, and other foundations of its ^brave resistance^

Right now, Putin is engaging our coalition in a contest of wills, counting on us to tire and ultimately retreat. But, through creative policymaking and the unity of the G7, we are sending an unmistakable message of resolve by making Russia increasingly bear the costs of its illegal war, instead of taxpayers in our coalition

So Russia was to bear the costs of this loan.

“While Ukraine gets most of the aid in the form of old American weapons pulled from U.S. reserves, it’s American workers at American companies that make new weapons to replenish them.”

David49

“While Ukraine gets most of the aid in the form of old American weapons pulled from U.S. reserves, it’s American workers at American companies that make new weapons to replenish them.”

Yes, both sides have been using up Cold War stockpiles, there has been some cost reactivating them, the aircraft, armour and heavy weapons were used in the first Gulf War. They would have been scrapped anyway, now they do need to be replaced.
US companies will make money, however Europe also will need to gear up their own defence industries that have been sadly neglected.

I have friends and family who work in the defence industry in Bristol. Working on everything from procurement to the design and building of submarines.

I cannot tell you how much time, effort, training, professionalism and cutting edge expertise is poured into their organisations all the time.

All of the 'defence industries have been sadly neglected' comments we're reading would make you think that we're a spent force and spread worry. I imagine, if tested, the average person in the street will be astonished with what this country can produce and achieve.

We have a dreadful habit of rubbishing our country and negativity and now really is the time to pull together and stop it.

Found this as well, the US spending

It’s spent $2.8 billion specifically on humanitarian aid, including nearly $2 billion to support displaced Ukrainians in neighboring countries.

It’s also has spent over $20 billion on economic aid, strengthening Ukrainian industries, job creation, and exports. The country’s economy contracted by an estimated 31% in 2022 after Russia’s invasion, resulting in significant unemployment and trade challenges, among other issues.

The Ukraine war brought a lot of jobs and industry!

In the long trawl above there is no evidence anywhere that Ukraines mineral resources were committed or Ukraine have to repay

The only "loan" as opposed to "aid" was the one "Treasury Department Announces Disbursement of $20 Billion Loan to Benefit Ukraine, To Be Repaid with Proceeds Earned from Immobilized Russian Sovereign Assets"

Whats changed is the Trump complete about turn in relationship to Putin - under Biden as part of NATO it was "an unprovoked ack of aggression" with Ukraine "bravely resisting".

would make you think that we're a spent force

We have offered peace time forces.
And even then, only if have US cover.

Sorry, but it all is hardly sounding like the Uk is really up to much.
And even with the EU as well.

As Putin won’t agree to UK forces on Ukrainian soil, it isn’t worth starting WW3. Neither here nor there that we really can’t do much but give £3billion yearly to Ukraine indefinitely.

A factor that I hadn't really thought of much is in play, which is of the years of sanctions imposed on Russia and many of its key players by huge numbers of countries, and the sanctions imposed back by Russia

It was raised as a ? on the BBC newsfeed this morning, ie its a hod that the West have on Russia, but at a cost, and its something the Russians want from Trump (ie lifting them?

I don't fully understand all of it, so have given the report in full on here, what as it could come into play in negotiations

Do you think the Trump administration will remove sanctions against Russia if the EU and Ukraine refuse to accept any deal that's without them?" Jacob from Camberley asks

The Trump administration's single-minded approach to foreign policy has upended so many rules and put so much strain on the Western alliance that at this stage nothing can be ruled out

Both US and Russian officials say they are interested in restoring economic co-operation - which would be impossible without lifting sanctions

However, they are one of the most effective levers in Washington's hands, which it can use to change Russia's behaviour

Without it, and without continued support for Ukraine, America's chances of getting any concessions out of Vladimir Putin will be vanishingly small

That's why US Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the lifting of sanctions has not been discussed with Russia yet